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jjpregler
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Joined: 17 May 2006
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 Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:50 am Post subject: Multi tabling BR question |
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| Ok, my typical BR protection rate for tournaments is to have 30 buy in for any tournaments that I enter. What if I multi table 2 or 3 tournaments. Do I need 60 and 90 buy ins to protect my BR if I do that? |
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Jobe Gilchrist
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Joined: 09 Apr 2006
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Location: "the most commonly-uttered phrase by vampire bats is 'it's not as cool as it sounds'"
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:53 am Post subject: |
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No, I don't think so. It's the variance of 30 games that you need protection from, which theoretically doesn't change at all, no matter how many tables you play at once. However, you'll probably play a bit worse the more tables you add, so you might want to bump your requirements just a little, depending on your comfort factor.
There's also the chance to lose a lot more per hour, which isn't a bankroll issue as much as it is a psychological/tilt issue. Make sure you can handle that. |
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JazzOne
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Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| I think 30 buy-ins is fairly conservative anyway. Some pros advise only 20 buy-ins, but I like to have a little extra cushion. So, I think you can stick to your 30 buy-in rule. I tried to multi-table yesterday, and I failed to cash in 7 consequetive STTs. That's a little unusual for me, so I decided to stop multi-tabling and just play one tournament at a time for higher stakes. I like the action with multiple tables, but I really hate the fact that I cannot get a good read on the players. |
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KGBlovesOreos
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Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 5319
Location: VA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| JazzOne wrote: |
| I think 30 buy-ins is fairly conservative anyway. Some pros advise only 20 buy-ins, but I like to have a little extra cushion. So, I think you can stick to your 30 buy-in rule. I tried to multi-table yesterday, and I failed to cash in 7 consequetive STTs. That's a little unusual for me, so I decided to stop multi-tabling and just play one tournament at a time for higher stakes. I like the action with multiple tables, but I really hate the fact that I cannot get a good read on the players. |
I can sympathize with this problem. Multitabling STT's/SNGs isn't wise IMHO. Although, by playing only one at a time, you may potentially be missing out on extra profit, but knowing your opponents is very important, maybe even more important than knowing your opponents in any other format, so you need to give yourself a chance to get to know everybody by single-tabling (even if it may bore/kill you to do so). |
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jjpregler
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Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 1449
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| KGBlovesOreos wrote: |
| JazzOne wrote: |
| I think 30 buy-ins is fairly conservative anyway. Some pros advise only 20 buy-ins, but I like to have a little extra cushion. So, I think you can stick to your 30 buy-in rule. I tried to multi-table yesterday, and I failed to cash in 7 consequetive STTs. That's a little unusual for me, so I decided to stop multi-tabling and just play one tournament at a time for higher stakes. I like the action with multiple tables, but I really hate the fact that I cannot get a good read on the players. |
I can sympathize with this problem. Multitabling STT's/SNGs isn't wise IMHO. Although, by playing only one at a time, you may potentially be missing out on extra profit, but knowing your opponents is very important, maybe even more important than knowing your opponents in any other format, so you need to give yourself a chance to get to know everybody by single-tabling (even if it may bore/kill you to do so). |
It's not the boring part that I am concerned about. I am trying to build my BR to start moving up and making more money, but it is agonizingly slow at one tournament at a time. |
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JazzOne
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Joined: 17 Apr 2006
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Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| jjpregler wrote: |
| It's not the boring part that I am concerned about. I am trying to build my BR to start moving up and making more money, but it is agonizingly slow at one tournament at a time. |
Just play the highest stakes your BR will allow. I didn't feel comfortable moving to the $11 SnGs when my bankroll hit $330, so I stayed at the $5.50 level. That was a huge mistake. I have about $800 in my BR right now, and I am still getting used to the $11 games (although I throw in a few $22s now and then).
Perhaps you could tell us your BR and the stakes you play so we could consider your situation in a little more detail. I agree with the post above, though. Multi-tabling is a bad idea, and if you do it now, you won't develop the hand reading skills you will need at the higher limits. Of course, I don't know exactly what stakes you play. I am assuming they are low. |
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KGBlovesOreos
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Joined: 28 Jun 2005
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Location: VA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| jjpregler wrote: |
| KGBlovesOreos wrote: |
| JazzOne wrote: |
| I think 30 buy-ins is fairly conservative anyway. Some pros advise only 20 buy-ins, but I like to have a little extra cushion. So, I think you can stick to your 30 buy-in rule. I tried to multi-table yesterday, and I failed to cash in 7 consequetive STTs. That's a little unusual for me, so I decided to stop multi-tabling and just play one tournament at a time for higher stakes. I like the action with multiple tables, but I really hate the fact that I cannot get a good read on the players. |
I can sympathize with this problem. Multitabling STT's/SNGs isn't wise IMHO. Although, by playing only one at a time, you may potentially be missing out on extra profit, but knowing your opponents is very important, maybe even more important than knowing your opponents in any other format, so you need to give yourself a chance to get to know everybody by single-tabling (even if it may bore/kill you to do so). |
It's not the boring part that I am concerned about. I am trying to build my BR to start moving up and making more money, but it is agonizingly slow at one tournament at a time. |
Agreed. I can relate to your outlook regarding this matter, as I have had these feelings myself many times, but patience is rewarded in the world of poker. It makes you stronger, wiser, and in the long run, better. |
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jjpregler
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Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 1449
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| JazzOne wrote: |
Perhaps you could tell us your BR and the stakes you play so we could consider your situation in a little more detail. I agree with the post above, though. Multi-tabling is a bad idea, and if you do it now, you won't develop the hand reading skills you will need at the higher limits. Of course, I don't know exactly what stakes you play. I am assuming they are low. |
Ok, in September I built my BR up to $500, but then needed to witdraw my online BR to pay a driving fine. In November I redeposited $50 and I'm up to $75 in a month and am adding $50 today. Up until today I've been playing .01/.02 ring games and $1 + .20 45 man SNGs at PokerStars. (I realized that I cannot play ring games here .05/.10 until I have a BR of $200-$300.) The next level in ring games is .02/.05 at stars and $5 + .50. They have 45 man, 27 man SNGs and STTs at that level. They also have 180 man tourney for $4 + .40.
I also plan to try to add $50 dollars a month until I build my BR. |
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KGBlovesOreos
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| jjpregler wrote: |
| JazzOne wrote: |
Perhaps you could tell us your BR and the stakes you play so we could consider your situation in a little more detail. I agree with the post above, though. Multi-tabling is a bad idea, and if you do it now, you won't develop the hand reading skills you will need at the higher limits. Of course, I don't know exactly what stakes you play. I am assuming they are low. |
Ok, in September I built my BR up to $500, but then needed to witdraw my online BR to pay a driving fine. In November I redeposited $50 and I'm up to $75 in a month and am adding $50 today. Up until today I've been playing .01/.02 ring games and $1 + .20 45 man SNGs at PokerStars. (I realized that I cannot play ring games here .05/.10 until I have a BR of $200-$300.) The next level in ring games is .02/.05 at stars and $5 + .50. They have 45 man, 27 man SNGs and STTs at that level. They also have 180 man tourney for $4 + .40.
I also plan to try to add $50 dollars a month until I build my BR. |
Well with the $75 + the $50 you're adding today, you nearly have enough of a bankroll to play $5 SNGs. With a bankroll like that, I recommend playing the $5 SNGs. Playing those super-micro cash games won't do you any good due to the tremendous rake, and you'd absolutely have to crush the competition to make a solid profit. You should also avoid MTT's for now, because with MTT's comes high variance, and any games associated with high variance aren't good for a bankroll that is insufficient to begin with. Grinding it out at the $5 SNGs seems like your best option IMHO. |
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JazzOne
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Joined: 17 Apr 2006
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Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| jjpregler wrote: |
Ok, in September I built my BR up to $500, but then needed to witdraw my online BR to pay a driving fine. In November I redeposited $50 and I'm up to $75 in a month and am adding $50 today. Up until today I've been playing .01/.02 ring games and $1 + .20 45 man SNGs at PokerStars. (I realized that I cannot play ring games here .05/.10 until I have a BR of $200-$300.) The next level in ring games is .02/.05 at stars and $5 + .50. They have 45 man, 27 man SNGs and STTs at that level. They also have 180 man tourney for $4 + .40.
I also plan to try to add $50 dollars a month until I build my BR. |
Well, $125 isn't much cash (I started with less, so I'm not criticizing). Here are a couple of my thoughts. First, I hate the rake on the $1 games. 20% is ridiculous (IMO). Recently, I went over my SnG stats and I re-calculated my winnings under the hypothetical scenario that I had been paying 20% commish instead of 10%. I would be a losing player with a 20% rake. So, the first thing I'd say is fund your account until you can afford more reasonable tournaments. It might interest you to know that FTP has recently introduced $2 tournaments with a quarter rake. That's only 12.5%. I'd recommend you switch to Full Tilt and play those tournaments until you can afford the $5 games. I never play cash games, so I can't really comment on that situation. If your bankroll doesn't allow you to play the ring games at FTP, you might have to stay at the other site. If you stay over there, though, I would advise you NOT to play the 25% rake tournaments. It would be very difficult to maintain an ROI high enough to be profitable in those games (not impossible, just damn difficult). My ROI is only 11%, so I would definately be losing money with the kind of rake you are talking about.
Edit: I also agree with the post above that STTs are better for a low bankroll than MTTs. |
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jjpregler
Forum Pro
Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 1449
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| JazzOne wrote: |
| jjpregler wrote: |
Ok, in September I built my BR up to $500, but then needed to witdraw my online BR to pay a driving fine. In November I redeposited $50 and I'm up to $75 in a month and am adding $50 today. Up until today I've been playing .01/.02 ring games and $1 + .20 45 man SNGs at PokerStars. (I realized that I cannot play ring games here .05/.10 until I have a BR of $200-$300.) The next level in ring games is .02/.05 at stars and $5 + .50. They have 45 man, 27 man SNGs and STTs at that level. They also have 180 man tourney for $4 + .40.
I also plan to try to add $50 dollars a month until I build my BR. |
Well, $125 isn't much cash (I started with less, so I'm not criticizing). Here are a couple of my thoughts. First, I hate the rake on the $1 games. 20% is ridiculous (IMO). Recently, I went over my SnG stats and I re-calculated my winnings under the hypothetical scenario that I had been paying 20% commish instead of 10%. I would be a losing player with a 20% rake. So, the first thing I'd say is fund your account until you can afford more reasonable tournaments. It might interest you to know that FTP has recently introduced $2 tournaments with a quarter rake. That's only 12.5%. I'd recommend you switch to Full Tilt and play those tournaments until you can afford the $5 games. I never play cash games, so I can't really comment on that situation. If your bankroll doesn't allow you to play the ring games at FTP, you might have to stay at the other site. If you stay over there, though, I would advise you NOT to play the 25% rake tournaments. It would be very difficult to maintain an ROI high enough to be profitable in those games (not impossible, just damn difficult). My ROI is only 11%, so I would definately be losing money with the kind of rake you are talking about.
Edit: I also agree with the post above that STTs are better for a low bankroll than MTTs. |
I agree with what you said. I hate paying the 20% fee for the tournaments. I don't play the 3.30 STTs because they are turbos and those usually turn into crap games IMO. My ROI on the 1.20 games are about 25% after the 20% rake. I haven't cashed in any turbos. I'm like 0 for 3. So that was about $10 down the drain. |
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