Online Poker Forum at Full Tilt Poker

dmoore1998 · Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:42 am Post subject:

Unethical is not the same as ILLEGAL though. As long as the rules of the software and the tournament are that this player gets so long to act on every hand then he can do what he likes. I'm all for getting 15 seconds to act then a time bank of 60 seconds or so, but just because this player players ridiculously slowly is absolutely NO reason that Full Tilt should be taking their winnings away. It's "unethical" but not illegal to slowroll someone with the nuts but no one is going to lose their winnings because of it. And no, no one is getting "kicked out" of a live tournament for this sort of behavior. It happens all the time as it gets near the bubble but before the hand-for-hand has kicked in. That's the reason you can call the clock on someone in live play. I've played many tournaments where people play super slow knowing the blinds are going up and wanting to put a short-stack in the blind when it gets to them, this is the same thing, abusing the allowed time for your own advantage, and no one is getting kicked out or even THINKING of kicking someone out for this.

pitka · High Card Joined: 07 Oct 2006 Posts: 19

He didnt' do this as the bubble approached. He started doing it 30 minutes into the tournament and continued to do it for the next 1 hour and 50 minutes. During that time he played 1 hand. He went all in to pick up the blinds because otherwise he was going to run out of chips before the money. If you think this wouldn't get you thrown out of a live tournament then you obviously have never played in one.

pitka · High Card Joined: 07 Oct 2006 Posts: 19

I have nothing more to say here on this matter. If people want to keep repeating the tired old "unethical does not mean illegal" argument even after all the points I've made and after the posting by Jobe then knock yourselves out.

DC11GE · Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:14 am Post subject:

I'd be pleased as hell if someone only waited 15seconds to make a play in a live tourney.

Doesn't bother me at all if someone does it online. I see the purpose. It's annoying, but so is alot of the play and alot of the talking. And yeah, if a site were to ever take winnings away from a player for doing this, then I'd never go to that site again. Thats one of the most moronic things I've heard in awhile.

Moshiach · Message Board Junkie Joined: 04 Oct 2005 Posts: 2240

In a live tournament, if someone was purposely delaying and stalling the play constantly every single hand, with the blinds constantly moving up, i imagine getting a tournament director to put down a penalty wouldn't be too hard.

In my mind this is illegal play, he's effectively changing the stucture of the tournament against the will of everyone who paid for that structure.

Easy to enforce in live play, near impossible in online play.

dmoore1998 · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:26 pm Post subject:

You can be given a penalty for excessively slow play in a live tournament, though that is usually one of the rules given (or there is no rule about it at all and the tournament director makes up a rule on the spot). This gives more power to the tournament director. What the original post was asking for was to take someone acting within the rules and penalize them. The rules as they stand now allow for "x" time to act on your hand each time the decision comes. I'm all for changing the rules to a shorter decision time and a time bank or something...but everyone knows the rules of the site, you can't decide in the middle of play that you want the rules changed and want someone penalized because the new rules you made up are being violated.

There's just a big difference between "i dont' like the rules, they should be changed in the future" and "i dont' like what this person is doing, you should penalize them and make up new rules after everyone agreed to the same rules before the tournament started".

I HATE CAPS · Straight Flush Joined: 05 Oct 2006 Posts: 357

i have to agree with junk. nobody is saying what he did is right and we all agree that its "unethical" but it is legal(stay with me here). driving a car is legal. if it is made illegal you can penalize everyone who drives AFTER the law (or in our case rule) is made. if a rule is made to stop this kind of thing then you could penalize anyone who uses this tactic after the rule is made. as it stands the rule says he can do what he did so you cant take his winnings. if a rule is made and he does it again then you can penalize him until then there is nothing that can be done.

yes its unethical and a pain in the @$$ but it is legal and smart( i would never do this but it really is a smart play) you cant take his money.

also there is a rule about stalling. its a rule everyone is faced with. its a 30 second rule. that is why we have time banks on online games. you have a 30 second clock you cant request a shorter time clock for someone else simply because you dont use your full 30 seconds.

rphoenix · High Card Joined: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 5

This is my first post in this forum and I will put in my 2 cents. Maybe he was just trying to act the same every hand so you could not figure out what he had. I am not saying that you are wrong, I am saying you are letting him get under your skin and playing the way he wants you to. He is taking you, and probably a couple of other people, off of their game. Maybe FTP should have Turbo's with less time between levels. Everyone should just play they game the way that they play. People are always going to **** about something. You should have just outplayed him.

J_Ricks · Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:30 am Post subject:

don't like the time limits...leave

Big Slick x13x · Forum Icon Joined: 18 Jun 2006 Posts: 4305 Location: ROK

All that happens is they call time on you in a live tournament and the same thing happens here. When that little sound goes off and says you have 15 seconds, it's just like a tournament director say you're on the clock. I've stalled in a live tournament before because the way the tournament was structured was really sh!tty. It was two flights, each started with 40 and played down to 20. then the final 20 from each would combine and play the rest of the way out. This is due to the casino only having 4 poker tables, and an 80 person freeroll. The guy to my right and I started taking our time when the blinds got to 600/1200 because the first flight's blinds only got to 400/800 before they were down to 20. We did this because when the two flights combined they would start with the lowest blind structure(yes very stupid). I think they should have just stopped going up when it hit where the first flight finished. But I took about a minute and a half to lay down 26o to a raise. We all know I'm not even thinking about calling. I was taking the time to study my opponent though to see for weakness / strength. I was also trying to make as few people as possible pay the higher blind at my table when they're just going to go back down as soon as one more person gets knocked out.

bigguz2000 · Two Pair Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 68

It may be a noncourteous thing to do....but it is completely legal. You cannot scorn someone for using their alotted time. It's there time. Who knows, maybe theyre just slow.

Someone in the freeroll against me the other night was doing this. They started at like 150 left, where only 80 paid. I knew he was right there cause we were talking about the baseball game, and he replied everytime almost instantly. Someone said something too him and he wrote "I have 30 seconds,and I can use every one of them"

It's your choice to do that or not. Just because everyone doesnt want to play speed poker, doesnt mean theyll all bow to those who do.

dmoore1998 · Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:42 pm Post subject:

Look at it this way, would you say that a football team who took the entire play clock or a basketball team who used up the shot clock all the time because it was the best way to win should automatically "lose" because they were stalling? Part of being successful is using strategy wherever you can find it in order to win.

cheecho · Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:09 pm Post subject:

Most of the post here are correct (IMO). It is legal - and lets face it, is 30 sec. that bad? - NO; yes it is annoying.

In live tourney play if someone were to do this - the ONLY thing that can be done is when action gets to that player, you can all a clock on them. Just for arguments sake thets say the clock happens to be 30 sec. , he STILL gets the full 30 sec, no less.

So enjoy playing in your boxers (or briefs if that is you) and know that when it gets to them you have a full 30 sec. to get something to drink /check email/ brb/ or whatever.

By the way - when I was new to the game. I had this happen on another site. I emailed support - they email me back and said that is was a legal way to play and there is nothing that can be done the that particualr player.

pitka · High Card Joined: 07 Oct 2006 Posts: 19

This tactic is now becoming a regular feature of these freeroll tournaments. This month in the Gold Freeroll we have player Johum taking the full amount of time to fold every hand. What a pathetic joke these tournaments are becoming. I wonder how much abuse of the rules will have to take place before measures are taken to stop this.

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