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blkhwk67t
Full House
Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 172
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 Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject: pkt k's |
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I'm looking for some help on this hand and like bigwheel said, I'm more likely to get help from actual FLHE players here than in the Ring Game hands section of the forum.
I really didnt have a good read on this player yet (just a few hands in and havent seen any of his hands shown down yet) so no idea on his playing style.
Hand #35084956-54861 at Tonowanda ($.25/$.50 Hold'em)
Started at 27/Oct/06 12:41:36
airwick258 is at seat 0 with $25.55.
jims0 is at seat 1 with $11.35.
kcim is at seat 2 with $8.70.
McG is at seat 3 with $44.60.
mazzl is at seat 4 with $49.
smokesilver is at seat 5 with $11.55.
myis250 is at seat 6 with $12.15.
John William is at seat 7 with $22.30.
dangelo70 is at seat 8 with $40.90.
creampoof is at seat 9 with $28.15.
The button is at seat 5.
myis250 posts the small blind of $.10.
John William posts the big blind of $.25.
airwick258: Kd Kc
jims0: -- --
kcim: -- --
McG: -- --
mazzl: -- --
smokesilver: -- --
myis250: -- --
John William: -- --
dangelo70: -- --
creampoof: -- --
Pre-flop:
dangelo70 folds. creampoof folds. airwick258 raises
to $.50. jims0 folds. kcim folds. McG folds.
mazzl folds. smokesilver folds. myis250 re-raises
to $.75. John William folds. airwick258 re-raises
to $1. myis250 calls.
The only hands that I could possiblyput him on, that would 3 bet, was a big pkt pair, AK or possible AQ.
Flop (board: 7s Tc 5s):
myis250 checks. airwick258 bets $.25. myis250
raises to $.50. airwick258 re-raises to $.75.
myis250 calls.
Pretty good flop for me. This is where I put him on big slick (spades). I thought that the check raise and call was weird. I thought that he was drawing to the nut flush because wouldn't he want to cap there to protect a high pkt pair or a set?
Turn (board: 7s Tc 5s 2d):
myis250 bets $.50. airwick258 raises to $1. myis250
calls.
Once again another good card for me and again another raise and call. I am starting to get weary of him now but, in my opinion, he still hasn't played the hand like he was beating me.
River (board: 7s Tc 5s 2d Qd):
myis250 bets $.50. airwick258 calls.
At this point, I am throughly confused and am just wanting to see what he has and just call his bet.
Any thoughts on what he had and how you would have played it differently? I will post the rest of the HH after a couple of responses. |
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dmoore1998
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 1154
Location: Iowa
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: pkt k's |
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| blkhwk67t wrote: |
Pre-flop:
dangelo70 folds. creampoof folds. airwick258 raises
to $.50. jims0 folds. kcim folds. McG folds.
mazzl folds. smokesilver folds. myis250 re-raises
to $.75. John William folds. airwick258 re-raises
to $1. myis250 calls.
The only hands that I could possiblyput him on, that would 3 bet, was a big pkt pair, AK or possible AQ.
Are you joking? At this level he could 3-bet or cap with 4-5s. Since you just sat down he could be a maniac, I've played this level before and people will raise preflop with anything. Also, at this low limit game once I pick up KK I've pretty much decided that if no A flops I'm at least calling to the river. Too many crazy players who overvalue a pair and playing limit gives you too good of odds to fold, you only have to be right occasionally to make it worth the while.
Flop (board: 7s Tc 5s):
myis250 checks. airwick258 bets $.25. myis250
raises to $.50. airwick258 re-raises to $.75.
myis250 calls.
Pretty good flop for me. This is where I put him on big slick (spades). I thought that the check raise and call was weird. I thought that he was drawing to the nut flush because wouldn't he want to cap there to protect a high pkt pair or a set?
I think he would cap here with spades also actually, especially with AK. After the call I'm actually putting him on a 10 and maybe he's starting to realize he's beat.
Turn (board: 7s Tc 5s 2d):
myis250 bets $.50. airwick258 raises to $1. myis250
calls.
Once again another good card for me and again another raise and call. I am starting to get weary of him now but, in my opinion, he still hasn't played the hand like he was beating me.
Definitely not playing the hand like he's ahead, if he knew he was ahead he should have reraised here, the board isn't scary if he's got a hand big enough to beat KK and you're clearly not folding to a reraise at this point.
River (board: 7s Tc 5s 2d Qd):
myis250 bets $.50. airwick258 calls.
At this point, I am throughly confused and am just wanting to see what he has and just call his bet.
Any thoughts on what he had and how you would have played it differently? I will post the rest of the HH after a couple of responses. |
I would say the only hand he has that beats you is Q-10. I'm not worried about him frankly but I probably also just call on the end. I probably play the hand the exact same way. Raise at every opportunity until the river then if he bets out i just call with only one pair. |
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AllInDrawinDead
Royal Flush
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 580
Location: New York, NY
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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River (board: 7s Tc 5s 2d Qd)
That is a pretty good looking board for an unimproved pocket pair on the river. He three bet you preflop and unless he's a complete idiot (which is possible) he has something in the range of a pocket pair from 8-8 up to A-A or two big unpaired hole cards.
You can beat J-J and 9-9 but obv not A's Q's or 10's. You can certainly beat any two paint cards unless he has Q-10. AK, AQ, AJ, A10, KQ, KJ, QJ you can beat all those hands. Calling here on the river is a solid decision.
I think he is holding A-Q and overplayed it on every street and then bet the river because he thinks he drew out on you. |
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Honest_Rob
Postmaster General
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 5428
Location: trying to get back to even
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I would have played it the same way except I probably would have raised the river. The only hand I can imagine him having that would beat you is QQ. Of course this is low limit and the players often play other strange hands that you can't realisitically put them on but his play isn't really out of the ordinary here for AK or AQ or a flush draw or lots of other hands that you will most always beat at this level. Because you're posting this I'm gonna guess he has QQ and outdrew you on the river. You still played it correctly if that's the case. |
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deadmoney314
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 3206
Location: grunching through reply posts
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: pkt k's |
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| blkhwk67t wrote: |
Pre-flop:
dangelo70 folds. creampoof folds. airwick258 raises
to $.50. jims0 folds. kcim folds. McG folds.
mazzl folds. smokesilver folds. myis250 re-raises
to $.75. John William folds. airwick258 re-raises
to $1. myis250 calls.
The only hands that I could possiblyput him on, that would 3 bet, was a big pkt pair, AK or possible AQ.
Well, at .25/.50 I have to disagree, there are maniacs out there that will re-raise you with T2o not because it falls into any strategy, its because they are just beginning to play and there for fun like blackjack. Also at this limit, deuces will 3-bet you or a lot of unorthodox PPs from this position to eliminate the BB in hopes you have high cards. AA is a real possibility but I would loosen the range requirements with no reads, a lot of players will fire at you early on to see what you do under pressure.
Flop (board: 7s Tc 5s):
myis250 checks. airwick258 bets $.25. myis250
raises to $.50.
Hmm, check-raise. Well a donk would have just donk bet if s/he hit the flop so this person at least has some experience, not that it means they play well but s/he either has a PP or paired the board which you pretty much have beat at this point. A bad hand to be against here which is pretty much even money is TX  , this move could be a naked spade draw as someone mentioned but I don't feel it is for whatever reason, tricky players tend to peel one off on the flop and try the check-raise move on the turn with a big draw like AKs.
airwick258 re-raises to $.75.
myis250 calls.
All right, this is my first decent clue here, seems like villain paired the board or has a PP and now is resigning to the fact that you may hold AA/KK. I think he knows at this point that he is beaten, or at least what you could possibly hold.
Pretty good flop for me. This is where I put him on big slick (spades). I thought that the check raise and call was weird. I thought that he was drawing to the nut flush because wouldn't he want to cap there to protect a high pkt pair or a set?
Turn (board: 7s Tc 5s 2d):
myis250 bets $.50. airwick258 raises to $1. myis250
calls.
HMMmm, donk bet from a tricky player. This could mean a lot of things, if this player was pure n00b I would imagine the player having T2, but the check-raise on the flop steered me away from that possibility. I'm starting to narrow down to 22, or spade draw (possibly 89s). A PP lower than yours is a possibility, I guess QQ could play w/no reads against you but again it doesn't have that feel.
Once again another good card for me and again another raise and call. I am starting to get weary of him now but, in my opinion, he still hasn't played the hand like he was beating me.
River (board: 7s Tc 5s 2d Qd):
myis250 bets $.50. airwick258 calls.
At this point, I am throughly confused and am just wanting to see what he has and just call his bet.
Any thoughts on what he had and how you would have played it differently? I will post the rest of the HH after a couple of responses. |
Yeah, I see nothing wrong with how you played and at this point the information on how this opp played his hand is much more valuable than one BB (and there is the chance that you are still good). With no reads I might just call the donk bet he fired on the turn for the same reason, information. GH |
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Eric Hammond
High Card
Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:04 pm Post subject: Pretty sure he had QQ |
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I'm leaning toward 85% QQ and 15% AQ.
You played the hand extremely well. (Even if he beats you with QQ)
Nice work.
-Eric Hammond- |
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AllInDrawinDead
Royal Flush
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 580
Location: New York, NY
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| When analyzing the hand, I made the assumption that he isn't a complete idiot. I gave the opponent a little bit of credit. |
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blkhwk67t
Full House
Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: Re: pkt k's |
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Thanks for the replies. I guess I didnt do to bad in the hand since I was coming up within about the same analysis as to what he hand as you guys did. Here's the showdown.
Showdown:
myis250 shows Ac As.
myis250 has Ac As 7s Tc Qd: a pair of aces.
airwick258 mucks cards.
(airwick258 has Kd Kc.)
Hand #35084956-54861 Summary:
$.30 is raked from a pot of $6.75.
myis250 wins $6.45 with a pair of aces
The only time I even considered him having AA was w/ the preflop betting. After the flop though, I think he played his hand extremely poor and that is where he threw me off of that hand. I guess you get that alot when playing low limit poker.
| deadmoney314 wrote: |
Well, at .25/.50 I have to disagree, there are maniacs out there that will re-raise you with T2o not because it falls into any strategy, its because they are just beginning to play and there for fun like blackjack. Also at this limit, deuces will 3-bet you or a lot of unorthodox PPs from this position to eliminate the BB in hopes you have high cards. AA is a real possibility but I would loosen the range requirements with no reads, a lot of players will fire at you early on to see what you do under pressure.[/color] |
Dead I do agree w/ you that you see alot of weird plays @ these smaller levels but this hand was from UB and you do see alot of improved play from players @ the .25/.50 level. I waided through the .01/.02, .02/.04 & .05/.10 levels to build a big enough BR to play .25/.50. On UB, that is where you see the truley oddball hands being played to the river. I'm not saying that you still don't get that kind of play @ the .25/.50 level but overall, for the most part, you do see a improvement in players skills and run into those kind of players less often. |
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Honest_Rob
Postmaster General
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 5428
Location: trying to get back to even
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Where do you think he played it extremely poor? |
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clussman
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2804
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Honest_Rob wrote: |
| Where do you think he played it extremely poor? |
I had the same question. When you re-raised on the flop and he just called he might have have thought you had turned a set with the 10s or that maybe you were the one playing any two cards and had beaten his one pair. It looks like your aggression may have saved you some bets. Aces are great but at the end of the day they're still just one pair, which isn't all that hot when you're being faced wiith a lot of aggression.
Instead of thinking he played it poorly, maybe you should be happy that you played it well.  |
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Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 7095
Location: Quitting smoking
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Honest_Rob wrote: |
| Where do you think he played it extremely poor? |
Well, the donkbets on the turn and river are both pretty horrible. |
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clussman
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2804
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Are they donkbets because he should have made a decision about whether he thought he was ahead or behind? I.e., if he thought he was ahead he should have 3-bet the turn or if he thought he was behind he should have check-called?
I can understand being reasonably confident that I'm ahead but not positive and not wanting to cap every street. I can also understand that that might be a horrible way to play. I only play LHE in HORSE so I'd appreciate more insight on this. |
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AllInDrawinDead
Royal Flush
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 580
Location: New York, NY
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| If he thinks he's ahead he should cap the flop and then lead the turn. If he thinks he's behind then he should check/call. It was certainly a strange way to play aces post flop and that's what threw me off his actual hand. |
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Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 7095
Location: Quitting smoking
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| A donkbet is a common name for betting into an opponent that has the betting lead. |
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