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jorelskid · High Card Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 8

Well I understand all of your points. I just like to have the extra chance to make a laydown after flop with KK. whenever.

When I have KK under the gun, I raise to 3-5x the BB. the same raise I do with any cards I am raising with. IF I get re-raised allin I can think of If they AA (where I have only folded once ever).

Short stack All in raise would clear most of the trash hands out like 6-5. So if I would reraise to play heads up. I would only win 1000. If I call and am the only caller I win 1000. If I get raised from behind, I have KK and can play the flop.

Maybe I am just to Timid in this case but I just don't like All in with anything less than AA with early/Mid position. Because the average winning hand in Nl is two pair. and I only have one, After I have seen the 5 of the seven card I get to play with (the flop) all In's are a completely different story.

deadmoney314 · Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: Re:

dmoore1998 · Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:58 am Post subject:

I understand what you're saying about wanting to just smooth-call because you are only winning 1000 (actually 1300 including blinds). The problem there is that you are inviting junk hands behind you to call...including weak aces like A-4 that normally wouldn't call if you raised all-in. This means if an ace hits it is more likely that someone has one. Also it invites bigger stacks to call with things like suited connectors because they want to make sure the all-in busts out. That's the biggest problem I think, people will call with junk hands that may hit a flop that looks very good to you with KK such as 8-7-2. Someone may have played some 8-7 suited hand. I see this happen all the time to people who smooth-call all-ins with big hands. Once someone is all-in anyone with a decent chip stack and a decent drawing hand wants to call because they want to make sure that at least someone knocks them out.

To me 1300 chips (assuming no antes) is a pretty good amount to win here (it represents over 1/3 of the chips you currently have). I think you have to look ahead to what is likely to happen if you commit 1000 chips here. What if the guy with AQ suited raises? Are you going to fold? My guess is no which is why I would push here, I want to be the one pushing all-in rather than calling because I want as few people in the pot as possible. If you are putting 1/4 of your stack into the pot pre-flop, you have to logically assume that if you want to play the hand to the end you are going to end up committing all of your chips. You can definitely smooth-call here and push the flop if no ace hits, but you are leaving yourself open to having everyone call the 1000 and basically having very little chance of winning the pot at all with that many players involved.

jorelskid · High Card Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 8

Yeah great point but I am thinking the small stack has cards like A5 ,A2 or A 10 even. So what do i care if two a person call the 1000 with so A-crap. If a ace hits I am not winning the 1300 anyways. But if it doesn't I going to win more than 1300 (at least I have a good chance)

people tight close to the bubble are happy to let other people knock each other out, 5x the blind should kill most of the crappy hands

But if I am not putting tha small stack on Ax then All in play might be better. But I am no expert by no means.

dmoore1998 · Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:33 pm Post subject:

I would put the small stack on anything really. They are UTG, about to be put in the blind, after 2 more hands they go from 1000 to 700, I think you push with any ace, any 2 cards higher than 10, any pair. You've only got 5 bb's left and about to be IN the blind, I think that really loosens up the starting requirements. Actually if I put the all-in on a weak ace I definitely push because that means anyone behind me with a good ace has fewer outs if I think the UTG has an ace in their hand. I think the idea that 1000 chips scares out the bad hands depends a lot on how big the other stacks are. It's only 5 big blinds, I think if I have 10-15k in front of me I call with any suited connector for only 1000. But I don't call a 2nd all in of 4000 unless I have a big hand. Also for 1000 you are going to get most small pocket pairs out there calling, and I really don't want to have to worry about someone flopping a set and pushing all-in with 3 small cards on the board. I would go all-in not necessarily because I was wanting someone else to call and double me up, but because I want to isolate with a made hand. With a big drawing hand like AK I may just call because I need to hit something, with a large made hand though I think you want to get everyone out that you possibly can, because you have the best hand, everyone else is drawing.

dmoore1998 · Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject:

And just to touch on the original point of this post, I think calling with AQ suited here is a bad call, a VERY bad call actually. However if the player had more chips, like 20k instead of 6k, then I think the call becomes more acceptable. You have to assume that the player who went all-in UTG is weak, the AQ probably has them beat so I think you can "almost" ignore them (unless you think they are pushing with a weak ace which takes one of your outs). The second all-in is the one you really have to decide if you should call. With a big chip stack I think it's still a bad call, but only marginally. You're not going to go broke if you lose, you've got a lot of chips compared to the blind, the 2nd all-in is for 20x the bb, still not huge, could easily be any mid pocket pair trying to shut everyone else out, and even though you might be behind, the extra money in the pot from the 1000 all-in and the blinds might make it a decent gamble to try to knock 2 players out in one shot. Don't get me wrong, I still think it's not the best play even with a big chip stack, but I think it's just a so-so play with a lot of chips while a horrible play with only 6k chips.

mathman1115 · Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:55 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the poker lesson dfg, but this is a forum and the point is to give your opinion on the hand. No one, or atleast not myself, said that what i would choose to do is the correct play here. I just said what i would have done, and why i thought what he did was not the right play.

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