Online Poker Forum at Full Tilt Poker

Mikelib · Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:43 pm Post subject: Do I call the all-in?

Its the 2nd hand in a tournament and I have 1000 starting chips and I get 2 queens in middle position and raise 200. The guy after me goes all in, I call, he shows Ace-King offsuit and wins flopping an ace. Did I make a bad decision? Should I have folded my pair of queens? what would you guys have done different?

caribstv · Pair Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 39 Location: New Jersey

I won't, Queens, Jacks and AK are killer hands

Mikelib · Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:25 pm Post subject:

So you would have called the all-in then?

FatStacks06 · Royal Flush Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 736

You have to call there. There are only two hands that beat you at the time and even if he has the AK he is only drawing to 6 pure outs. You were the favorite and lost, it happens, welcome to poker.

pokerdove72 · High Card Joined: 03 Nov 2005 Posts: 13

this should make ya feel better mike Smile

you made the right call...
Full Tilt Poker Game #560061325: Table Tara - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 10:15:53 ET - 2006/04/11
Seat 1: pokerdove72 ($2.95)
Seat 2: Bad Bad Leroy ($3.85)
Seat 3: Paluch23 ($17.05)
Seat 4: KaribbeanKidd ($4.80)
Seat 5: tangrong185 ($1.95)
Seat 6: Eeyore312 ($6.55)
Seat 7: Beech Bum ($2.95)
Seat 8: MFCMark ($11.95)
Seat 9: jjbbsoakley ($9.60)
jjbbsoakley posts the small blind of $0.05
pokerdove72 posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pokerdove72 [Ad Ac]
Bad Bad Leroy calls $0.10
Paluch23 folds
KaribbeanKidd calls $0.10
tangrong185 folds
Eeyore312 folds
Beech Bum raises to $0.40
MFCMark folds
jjbbsoakley folds
pokerdove72 raises to $2.95, and is all in
Bad Bad Leroy folds
KaribbeanKidd folds
Beech Bum calls $2.55, and is all in
pokerdove72 shows [Ad Ac]
Beech Bum shows [Qh Qc]
*** FLOP *** [Js 5c 3c]
*** TURN *** [Js 5c 3c] [Qd]
*** RIVER *** [Js 5c 3c Qd] [5h]
pokerdove72 shows two pair, Aces and Fives
Beech Bum shows a full house, Queens full of Fives
Beech Bum wins the pot ($5.55) with a full house, Queens full of Fives
pokerdove72 is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $6.15 | Rake $0.60
Board: [Js 5c 3c Qd 5h]
Seat 1: pokerdove72 (big blind) showed [Ad Ac] and lost with two pair, Aces and Fives
Seat 2: Bad Bad Leroy folded before the Flop
Seat 3: Paluch23 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: KaribbeanKidd folded before the Flop
Seat 5: tangrong185 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Eeyore312 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: Beech Bum showed [Qh Qc] and won ($5.55) with a full house, Queens full of Fives
Seat 8: MFCMark (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: jjbbsoakley (small blind) folded before the Flop

emoney_33 · Full House Joined: 22 Nov 2005 Posts: 199

how much chips did he have, you have? blinds?

QQ is a good hand, you had a slight advantage against AK, but no hand will win everytime.

aztecgator · Two Pair Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 70

Mike Sexton says you should never get busted in a tournament with a Q in your hand. Doyle Brunson says the only hand preflop you should be willing to get busted with early in a tournament is AA. It would have been an easier fold if another player had reraised or called after the all in bet, then you know your QQ is probably not good. With only one raiser putting you all in, its a more difficult situation. Nevertheless, while I don't know how short-stacked folding would have left you, it was only the 2nd hand and so you should still have been ok stack-wise relative to the blinds. The best you can do is double up here, which only slightly improves your chances of winning the tournament, or even placing in the money. The worst you can do is get busted, which gives you no chance at all.

Mikelib · Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the advice I do feel I was a bit eager to call the all in but fortunately it was a freeroll and it is a free lesson learned. I suppose it was stupid on my part as it was only the second hand, the blinds were 10-20 and my stack was the starting$ 1000 and for all I knew the guy could have had AA or KK. Its not fair though Gus hansen wins with 8-2 and i cant even pull it off with a high pocket pair;)

gho · Straight Flush Joined: 20 Feb 2006 Posts: 391

Here's an article by Matt Matros on this exact subject:

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/?a_id=15093&m_id=65576

Do you agree or disagree?

Uncle_Buz · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:38 am Post subject:

I say, "Push the chips in!"

Last week I played in a 60 man live tournament in a casino. I got lucky, hit a big hand early and doubled up before the blinds reached the second level. Let me tell you, playing with a big chip lead is fun. Much more fun than trying to avoid elimination, waiting for the nuts and folding to big bets you know are sometimes bluffs.

For the next few hours I was able to find small edges and charge people big time to try to draw out on me. Sometimes they did but mostly they didn't and they often folded. Also, people didn't "Steal" my blinds. They only raised my Big blind if they had a strong starting hand. Conversely, I could steal whever it was folded to me in the cutoff or button seat. Eventually my chip stack rose to over 10 times the starting chips.

This experience taught me why some pros "Build a big stack or go broke". They say, "Why waste a whole day limping and folding?" They would rather go broke early than get blinded off, bust out late and out of the money.

By doubling up early you have the best chance to get to the money table. It's worth it to bust out early half the time as long as the other half of the time you get to be the early chip leader and make a run at the final table.

Mikelib · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:05 am Post subject:

After reading that article I feel a bit better about my decision. This week has been nothing but bad beats for me but I suppose that is the nature of the game it really makes you question your decisions even if the seem mathmatically sound. Sad

I

aztecgator · Two Pair Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 70

I read the very nice article by Matt Matros (thanks Gho for pointing it out) and I would tend to agree with him under two conditions: (1) I know my opponent has AK and (2) I know how to take advantage of my large stack.

For (1), what if the opponent didn't expose his cards, what then? What hands would he move all in with? Let's assume that AA, KK or AK are the only ones. If he has one of the first two hands, you are a big dog (18% chance to win) and a slight favorite if he has AK (54% chance). The probability that he has AA or KK (given you have QQ and he has either AA, KK or AK) is 0.43 and the probability that he has AK is 0.57. The overall probability that you will win the hand is then 0.18*0.43 + 0.54*0.57 = 0.39. In other words, without knowing what your opponent holds, but assuming its either AA, KK or AK, your overall probability of winning is only about 39%, making the decision to muck your QQ a good one.

Even if I somehow knew he had AK and called and won, I still would need the skill required to play the big stack properly. If you look at almost every tournament online, you will see that the early chip leaders are generally gone before making the money. They get lucky and double or triple up but squander their chips by playing too loosely and too aggressively. Most average players (me included) just don't know how best to press the advantage their large chip stacks afford them.

Guest · Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 12:51 pm Post subject:

pcj505 · Pair Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 43

aztecgator · Two Pair Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 70

If it were me, I would be joining you on the rail pcj505 as well. The best you could hope for is to get all your money in the pot as an overwhelming favorite. The rest is up to chance. Unfortunately, you got very unlucky. You played it perfectly.

	Full Tilt Poker is licensed by the Kahnawake Gaming Commission. © Copyright 2004 - 2005 FullTiltPoker.com., All Rights Reserved