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ryan0945
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 Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:46 pm Post subject: aa vs j9 |
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| Ok guy bets 30 before flop we are playing in 5-10nl i reraise to 60 more he calls flop is k 9 2 i bet 150 guy calls turn is a jack he goes all in i call he has 2 pair. What did i do wrong here. I was complaing and yelling at the guy after i lost and some guys in the pokeroom lobby were talking about implied odds im like the dude had like 10 percent chance of winning. What did i do wrong??? |
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iRockhoes
Pair
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:53 am Post subject: |
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I hear this alot ryan, and im done playing so i can respond to you now. First of all you have to relax about bad beats they happen and that is why you have a bankroll. If bad beats didn't happen, that would mean either you were very lucky or never getting your money in with the best of it. If you were always an underdog you could never be sucked out on. That alternative is no good tho, so lets live with the bad beats. That being said, you have to learn to lay down big hands if you are ever going to be successful in poker. If i have a Flush and the board pairs and the guy goes all in, I have to seriously consider folding. Whether I fold or not is based on a variety of factors. Would the guy push a lower flush? Does this guy have enough balls to bluff me? if the answer is no to both, you have to let the hand go. You didn't list whether he is aggressive or tight or whatever, but you have to start getting into your opponent's head. If you were him after you represented a big pair, would you push with anything less than 2 pair? probably not. That being said the draw to two pair is a very hard lay and will come with countless more hours of experience. I still call off stacks with over pairs, but after I do it i try to think about how I could have avoided this beat. A prime example is a hand I played tonite:
I have AK in SB
Middle pos. limps, I raise, BB calls, MP folds.
Flop KK2 no flush draw
Great flop how do i get the most out of this tho? I bet out
BB thinks and calls.
Turn is 3.
Another blank and it will disguise my hand if i check here looking like i was just trying to steal.
BB checks.
I now put him on a pocket pair or Kx lower than mine maybe KJ or KQ which i am primed to stack on river.
River 9.
No flush or straight possible. He has to have a boat to beat me.
I bet out the pot (about 450).
He reraises to 1200. Uh oh, have I trapped myself? I think about his possible holdings hed call both preflop and flop with that has me beat: 22 33 or 99. I rule out K2 K3 or K9 as they are very unlikely to call a raise to. I determine he is either bluffing (Very unlikely), has a boat full of kings with a pocket pair, or has AK or lower and is trying to max his profit from what he thinks is good. If he flips KQ and i just call, ill be losing his last 1000 of profit. I don't think he calls flop raise with 33, so I put him on slowplaying 22 or hitting 99. I dont think hed call cold 22 from this position preflop. He either has 99, bluffing, or has Kx which im beating. If im calling I'm raising as i think it is just as likely he holds KQ or KJ as it is 99. So its 50/50 fold or raise. I feel folding is just too soft in this area and I push. He flips 99 and takes down a 5.5k pot.
In retrospect tho, i dont think i played the hand poorly at all. I am ok with losing that all in 8% of time, but winning his stack other times or maybe a big bet on river when he thinks im bluffing. This is the analysis you have to start doing on ur own hands if you want to become better. Could you have put him on J9? probably not. Once he pushes tho, id put him on a set or KJ. The mentality of "well if he has a set he wins" is flawed. you can read sets they just take a long time to do so. Try to put him on a range of hands ud think hed push with. If the odds in the pot are giving you lets say 2 to 1 on ur money, then you only need to be right 33% of time on this read. If you think he is beating you more than 2/3 of the time, fold your AA, simply say nh like you were bluffing. The next time you do that someone might try to bluff you and you flip your set or AA that is good and take someone's stack. Bad beats happen its what you learn from them that makes you profitable or not. |
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: |
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| iRockhoes wrote: |
I hear this alot ryan, and im done playing so i can respond to you now. First of all you have to relax about bad beats they happen and that is why you have a bankroll. If bad beats didn't happen, that would mean either you were very lucky or never getting your money in with the best of it. If you were always an underdog you could never be sucked out on. That alternative is no good tho, so lets live with the bad beats. That being said, you have to learn to lay down big hands if you are ever going to be successful in poker. If i have a Flush and the board pairs and the guy goes all in, I have to seriously consider folding. Whether I fold or not is based on a variety of factors. Would the guy push a lower flush? Does this guy have enough balls to bluff me? if the answer is no to both, you have to let the hand go. You didn't list whether he is aggressive or tight or whatever, but you have to start getting into your opponent's head. If you were him after you represented a big pair, would you push with anything less than 2 pair? probably not. That being said the draw to two pair is a very hard lay and will come with countless more hours of experience. I still call off stacks with over pairs, but after I do it i try to think about how I could have avoided this beat. A prime example is a hand I played tonite:
I have AK in SB
Middle pos. limps, I raise, BB calls, MP folds.
Flop KK2 no flush draw
Great flop how do i get the most out of this tho? I bet out
BB thinks and calls.
Turn is 3.
Another blank and it will disguise my hand if i check here looking like i was just trying to steal.
BB checks.
I now put him on a pocket pair or Kx lower than mine maybe KJ or KQ which i am primed to stack on river.
River 9.
No flush or straight possible. He has to have a boat to beat me.
I bet out the pot (about 450).
He reraises to 1200. Uh oh, have I trapped myself? I think about his possible holdings hed call both preflop and flop with that has me beat: 22 33 or 99. I rule out K2 K3 or K9 as they are very unlikely to call a raise to. I determine he is either bluffing (Very unlikely), has a boat full of kings with a pocket pair, or has AK or lower and is trying to max his profit from what he thinks is good. If he flips KQ and i just call, ill be losing his last 1000 of profit. I don't think he calls flop raise with 33, so I put him on slowplaying 22 or hitting 99. I dont think hed call cold 22 from this position preflop. He either has 99, bluffing, or has Kx which im beating. If im calling I'm raising as i think it is just as likely he holds KQ or KJ as it is 99. So its 50/50 fold or raise. I feel folding is just too soft in this area and I push. He flips 99 and takes down a 5.5k pot.
In retrospect tho, i dont think i played the hand poorly at all. I am ok with losing that all in 8% of time, but winning his stack other times or maybe a big bet on river when he thinks im bluffing. This is the analysis you have to start doing on ur own hands if you want to become better. Could you have put him on J9? probably not. Once he pushes tho, id put him on a set or KJ. The mentality of "well if he has a set he wins" is flawed. you can read sets they just take a long time to do so. Try to put him on a range of hands ud think hed push with. If the odds in the pot are giving you lets say 2 to 1 on ur money, then you only need to be right 33% of time on this read. If you think he is beating you more than 2/3 of the time, fold your AA, simply say nh like you were bluffing. The next time you do that someone might try to bluff you and you flip your set or AA that is good and take someone's stack. Bad beats happen its what you learn from them that makes you profitable or not. |
Excellent analysis!~  |
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