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RamhornUK · Pair Joined: 18 Mar 2007 Posts: 39

I am beginning to add Limit Hold em to my games and have a few quick questions that maybe someone could help with.

I see people referring to sample size and was wondering how many handswould you define as a good sample?

I am playing at the 0.25/0.50 limit, have played 1907 hands and am currently at -$8.45. Is this a bad start?

I play with $20 at the table on these games. How much would you recommend as a buy in for this limit? (for information i have a $250 - $300 bankroll for this limit, don't want to play higher though. Not yet anyway).

Any help gratefully appreciated.

RamhornUK. Very Happy

BOYNAMEDSUE · Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:23 am Post subject:

That is not bad, considering you are new to the game. I recommend reading 'Winning Low Limit Holdem', by Lee Jones. It's a great book for people who play in no-foldem holdem games (low limit games online, and low-middle limit gaes in casino).

As for buyins, $20 is fine. Anywhere from $5-20 is fine for $.25/.50 LHE.

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8057 Location: Sweden

Well, obviously losing money is a bad start. It doesn't say much about your skills though, since it's pretty easy to be down after just 2k hands. Your roll seems good for these games and how much you buy in for doesn't really matter as long as you'll never end up all-in during a hand.

mathman1115 · Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:56 am Post subject:

Your buyin is irrelevant for a limit game, as long as (like Riddim said) you have enough so that you can't be all in in any given hand. To cap every street (which is highly unlikely, but possible) would require 12 big bets. I generally buyin for 20 big bets, and reload if i still want to play at that table when i get down to 5-10.

As for winrate, under 2k hands means virtually nothing. I'd say 50,000 hands should give you an idea of what to expect, and 100,000 hands should tell the story.

Keep track of your big blinds won per 100 hands and graph results each session. (pokertracker is great, but you could even use excel). Graphs are good for seeing the big picture.

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8057 Location: Sweden

Mathman,

I'd say that 600 big bets (not big blinds) is a healthy roll for limit as long as he's not playing HU or really short handed games.

RamhornUK · Pair Joined: 18 Mar 2007 Posts: 39

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8057 Location: Sweden

RamhornUK · Pair Joined: 18 Mar 2007 Posts: 39

Doh!

Ok i get you now. Although its hard with players coming and going every three hands or so. Any sources of info on pro's & con's regarding
6max v full ring kicking around the forum?????

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8057 Location: Sweden

6max is more fun and more profitable, but also more swingy. It has the additional benefit of not being as mind-numbingly boring. For other opinions, the search function is your friend (as is mathman when he posts in this thread and disagrees with me).

mathman1115 · Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject:

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8057 Location: Sweden

mathman1115 · Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject:

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8057 Location: Sweden

Oh yeah, I knew there was some argument for FR I was forgetting. It's easier to auto-pilot. That combined with playing fewer hands means that you can play more tables. I don't really like the "8 donks instead of 5" argument at all though. What matters isn't how many bad players you have at your tables, but rather how many hands you get to play with them. I'm not sure if you were serious with that comment or not, but assuming equal skill you're going to show a larger profit at a 6max table vs. 5 bad players than at a FR table vs. 8.

To focus on you instead of the OP for a while, I'd definitely recommend giving 6max a shot at lower stakes like you mentioned. Hand reading might be harder to begin with, but that means that you're forced at getting better at it quicker than at FR, as does the simple fact that you'll be playing more hands. Cut down on your tables to the point where you can really focus on each of your decisions and on your opponents and give it a shot. Even if you go back to FR eventually, the 6max experience will help you in a lot of areas. The blind play and hand reading issues you mentioned are two examples and LP play is another.

Edit: Either the part about more skilled players was an edit or I just missed it (although my memory sucks I'm pretty sure it's the former). I have very little FR experience, but I'm inclined to believe that you're right. However, that's compensated for by having the chance to play more hands against the fish. At low stakes there's also the comfort that even the winning players are rarely all that good at the game, and a lot of them are even quite bad.

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