Online Poker Forum - Shove this river?

cubbies760 · Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:07 am Post subject: Shove this river?

Fairly early in a single table SNG, and no reads.

Do I shove this river, or value bet it.

What do you put the villian on?

Full Tilt Poker Game #7496425480: $10 + $1 Sit & Go (54725512), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 10:10:06 ET - 2008/08/02
Seat 1: Dopey (1,285)
Seat 2: Grumpy (1,470)
Seat 3: Doc (1,855)
Seat 4: Happy (1,300)
Seat 5: Bashful (1,500)
Seat 6: Sneezy (1,530)
Seat 7: Sleepy (1,500)
Seat 8: Hero (1,860)
Seat 9: Excited (1,200)
Doc posts the small blind of 15
Happy posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Js Jc]
Bashful folds
Sneezy folds
Sleepy folds
Hero raises to 105
Excited folds
Dopey folds
Grumpy folds
Doc calls 90
Happy folds
*** FLOP *** [2d 6h 4h]
Doc bets 60
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero raises to 210
Doc calls 150
*** TURN *** [2d 6h 4h] [8c]
Doc checks
Hero bets 400
Doc calls 400
*** RIVER *** [2d 6h 4h 8c] [Jd]
Doc bets 105
Hero ???

angelbullock · Three of a Kind Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 82

call here only thing calling tha ll in bet is the strt. if u lose can rebulid the stack, it is still early. He wants the call.

cubbies760 · Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:26 am Post subject:

Starvingwriter · Full House Joined: 03 May 2008 Posts: 174

imalittlefish · Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:34 am Post subject:

with half of your stack already in, I'd shove it.

nobodys bizness · Straight Joined: 28 Jul 2008 Posts: 122

I am pushing there.

His betting pattern makes no sense to me for 53. I could possibly see him playing 75h that way, checking on the turn, knowing you have been firing the whole hand.

I would put him on 22, 44 or 66.

Honest_Rob · Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:24 am Post subject:

shove-a-ments! He's got more than half his stack in the middle already. He's only folding if it was an outright bluff and if it was he's not calling any raise so maximize your value the times he has a hand. oh yeah and triple fist pump!!!!

cubbies760 · Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject:

Wayniac · Forum Pro Joined: 26 Mar 2008 Posts: 732

I'd just call and go to a showdown. If you win with this move, you've got a nice healthy stack to outplay everyone.

If you call and lose, you've still got enough chips to work with and recover.

If you push and are beat, you're done... period. If you push and win, honestly, in a one person SNG, I don't see a massive difference between your stack size now, and what it would be if you just make the call.

Many people will tell you that you've obviously got 700 more chips or so, but honestly, having those extra chips this early are not that important to me. You've still got to outlast the rest of the table. The extra chips would be nice, but this early in just a 9 person, I wouldn't be dying to get my stack into the middle of the pot.

I think I'd just call and hope for the best here. Besides, that looks like he's screaming for a call anyway.

Christa1959 · Straight Joined: 15 Sep 2007 Posts: 111

Seriously - if you not going to raise that pot, what pot will you raise then? You have top-set and only 35 and 57 will beat you. Plus the pot was raised preflop.

So if your opponent really calls in the first level a raise with one of these hands and then plays the hand postflop as bad as he did - take a note and go ahead.

The only question is how much you raise. As the pot is about 1500 and you have 1100 behind there is not much you can do wrong when u put all chips in the middle. If he folds - bad luck. But with whatever hand he will call 700, he will call 1100 as well and a raise to just - lets say 300, would be as much nonsense as his 100 into a 1,5k pot.

Btw - its so much nonsense to put an opponent on a specific hand. Thats happy guessing and not poker. You have to give him a range - and everything (set,overpair,draw,complete bluff) is far more likely than 35 or 57. For me a clear all in.

cardfish2 · Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject:

The 105 looks like a lame attempt at a blocking bet. Shove em in.

Honest_Rob · Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:47 pm Post subject:

skeeter1114 · Voice of Reason Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 4069

I put him on a busted heart draw, maybe something like A-2 of hearts. He's hoping you are on a flush draw and his 2's are good. I was going to say to shove the river, until I read Wayniac's post and think I agree with him. The pot is big enough, you can call in the event he was trying to defend his blinds and lucked his way into a straight (Unlikely, but you never know on here). I'd call unless I had some type of read, and maybe shove then.

Honest_Rob · Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:50 pm Post subject:

skeeter1114 · Voice of Reason Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 4069

Rob, I agree it's a weak bet. But, if Cubbies figures out he's the best player on the table (real likely), then why gamble when he doesn't have the nuts? Don't get me wrong, I have no problem shoving. But if the players are this bad and Cubbies feels that he can outplay them down the road, I don't think a call is horrible here.

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