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LostOstrich · Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: A Stupid Rule

My brother and I have been playing and reading the forums together tonight. We were talking about IABoomer's ethical argument thread, and this story came up. I'm sure most people are aware of the rule that a player may not announce his hand during play, but we both agreed that this story makes the rule seem ridiculous:

A crucial hand is being played out on the bubble of a live tournament. UTG raises, and it is folded round to the BB, who calls. The flop comes

Q Heart

7

2

..and the BB leads out for half the pot. UTG thinks, and raises 4x his bet. The BB snap-calls, and the turn card is dealt:

6 Club

BB checks, UTG bets roughly 2/3 of the pot. BB thinks for a few seconds, and calls. The river is the

J Heart

..and the BB quickly shoves all-in. UTG goes into the tank, and the following conversation begins:

UTG: "This is sick."
UTG: "I can't fold this."
BB: "Call then."
UTG: "You want me to call?"
BB: "You want me to help you decide?"
UTG: "Nice river."
BB: "Thanks."
UTG: "You really did chase a flush, didn't you?"
BB: "Call and see."
UTG: "So you want me to fold?"
BB: "I don't mind. I win either way."
UTG: "So you have the flush."
BB: "I'm afraid so."

And at this point, the UTG player leaps out of his chair in delight. He takes great pleasure in demanding that the floor come over immediately, before he elects whether to call or fold. His point is that his opponent has just announced his hand, which is illegal. So with the floor's approval, he calls, safe in the knowledge that only two scenarios are possible:

- His opponent is lying, and his set of Queens is therefore good.
- His opponent is telling the truth, and has therefore declared his hand, in which case his opponent's hand is dead.

Sick, yes?

IABoomer · Moderator Joined: 29 Oct 2006 Posts: 4054

I agree, as do many pros that once the pot is heads up, you should be allowed to talk with your opponent in trying to get a read. IIRC, the Tournament Director's Association either had a meeting, or discussed meeting in order to tweak that rule about hand discussion in light of things such as Jamie Gold's WSOP performance.

I think trying to talk your opponent into revealing their hand only so you can get it declared dead if it's true is a pretty lame way to go about things, but if the rules state you can't reveal your holdings, then the player with the flush should have kept his mouth shut.

RunnerJohn · Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject:

I'm kind of curious about this one. I'd like to have seen it, because I'm not sure I agree that the BB ever did reveal his hand. Maybe it's a technicality, but declaring the suit of a card or even both cards in his hand doesn't really announce his hand, because he didn't say which exact cards they were. I'd really like to see the ruling on this one.

nilgiri · Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject:

Wouldn't it be too late if the other player calls (i.e. acts)? I don't know how that rule is enforced...

Riddim · Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject:

Yeah I think this is kinda ridiculous in HU pots.

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