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mgodd
Royal Flush
Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 883
Location: North Carolina
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 Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: At what level do cash games become less profitable? |
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In a few words, it would seem that once you reach a certain level, none of the players would really have an edge over one another. So just curious what you all think is the highest level where if you are good enough, you still can be profitable?
Last edited by mgodd on Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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nilgiri
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 1514
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| I believe your assumption is incorrect. |
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telebob
Full House
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 213
Location: Lake Tahoe
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Umm, if you're good enough, I think that level would be ∞NL. I myself hope to one day be good enough to beat 1000000000NL, and be bankrolled for that level. |
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mgodd
Royal Flush
Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 883
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| How so? Obviously if you play at high enough stakes, you're not going to be sitting with donkeys, or even average players, you will be playing with pros and a bunch of really good poker players. I don't see how you could do much better than break even in the long run against the level of players you play against in the higher stakes. Sure if you have a good day or a good week, you could make some serious dough, but all the time I read about so-and-so making 500k this month, then losing that much or more the next... |
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Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 7654
Location: Quitting smoking
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| There will still be the occasional fish, along with players from lower stakes taking shots. Also, nobody in the world is playing perfect poker, so there always an opportunity for someone to have an edge. Those edges really don't have to be very big in terms of BB/100 to translate into a lot of money at the highest stakes. Why would anyone play those stakes if nobody had an edge anyway? Pros play to make money afaik. |
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PokerJessO
Straight Flush
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 404
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| So you think that having more money instantly makes a person a great poker player? There are bad and unskilled players at every level. The trick is to target the bad players and avoid the good players as much as possible. |
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bdbranch
Banned
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 503
Location: At home wdyt. Btw. I'm not opinionated all the time, umm can you be opinionated when you're asleep
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| I think the question should be at what level would the moderately decent player find that cash games are no longer profitable. |
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Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 7654
Location: Quitting smoking
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| bdbranch wrote: |
| I think the question should be at what level would the moderately decent player find that cash games are no longer profitable. |
Yeah, and even that isn't an interesting question because it's going to be practically impossible to define "moderately decent". |
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Zophar
Moderator
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 3578
Location: East Coast
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| Wouldn't the simplest answer be when you are playing a level you can't beat? |
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mgodd
Royal Flush
Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 883
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| Zophar wrote: |
| Wouldn't the simplest answer be when you are playing a level you can't beat? |
Of course. I guess maybe I just chose a poor choice of words (fixed my title). What I was wondering is if and when it can become more profitable to play certain stakes based on the general level of opponents that you play against. Say for example, is there is significant difference in play between 10/20 and 25/50, or 25/50 and 50/100, enough to stay at the lower level to make more profit? I guess it could very well depend on the certain player. Maybe I just answered my own question. It could be that there is no simple answer, but it is something that just crossed my mind that I wanted to hear some opinions on. |
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ThunderCrew
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 3366
Location: Illinois, Usa
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| How so? Obviously if you play at high enough stakes, you're not going to be sitting with donkeys, or even average players, |
That is highly untrue I've seen worse plays and players at higher levels when I've been in them. Higher stakes means they have mroe money to lose and are willing to lose it more. So maybe higher levels are actualy less profitable since the losses are bigger when the higher level fish/donk/whatever suck you out.
I like zopphars answer though  if you cant seem to beat a level then thats not a profitable level. Easy enough.
I would say find a level where you can seem to sit steady patient and leave the table with 2x-4x max buy in on a regular basis. For me that used to be the .10/.25 max buy in of 25.00 For now while rebuilding a br after a year break Im playing mainly HU low sng and soemtimes the .5.10 cash.
But hopefuly soon enough I'll get back on .10/.25 and get the ole 3x - Xxmax buy going on again |
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drtre1987
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1993
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: At what level do cash games become less profitable? |
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| mgodd wrote: |
| In a few words, it would seem that once you reach a certain level, none of the players would really have an edge over one another. So just curious what you all think is the highest level where if you are good enough, you still can be profitable? |
I remember reading or watching some interview (don't remember where) about what makes Phil Ivey such a great player. Some of the answers was that he is the best in the world at controlling his emotions better than anyone else at the table. Another answer was that he can grind out very long sessions without being fatigued, or more that he is much less fatigued than his opponent. He can stay mentally sharp even after putting in long hours. Another thing is that his B game is better than the regulars A game. That person said his B game is just barely worse than his A game and that most pros have problems with there being a larger gap between their A and B game. Another thing I remember hearing Phil Ivey say was that he knows when to quit. He realizes when he is playing bad and making mistakes and can quit before he spews off money.
So what I'm trying to say is that even though everyone at the highest stakes games all are the best at playing the game, there are some small things that some people do better than others. Most of this comes through preparation and mindset. Even if hypothetically everyone in a game has the same skill and talent, their results in the long run will be dependent on some of those small things that I mentioned in my first paragraph. |
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