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Danikar PN
High Card
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 9
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 Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:04 pm Post subject: First hand losses |
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First hand of 5 + .50 sng.
I had a hand was Q9o on the BB. 2 limpers SB calls. I check.
Flop comes A Q 9.
Checks around to 2nd limper. Who bets.
SB Calls, I raise.
SB Calls, Limpers Fold.
I raised pot on turn, and 150 all in on river.
SB has A9.
Did I play this right? Should have I bet this differently to save myself from a 9th place finish?
Here is hand history.
| Quote: |
Full Tilt Poker Game #6803054125: $5 + $0.50 Sit & Go (51711458), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:53:51 ET - 2008/06/12
Seat 1: xtremlee (1,500)
Seat 2: Danikar PN (1,500)
Seat 3: fansetele (1,500)
Seat 4: xLeMoNHeADx53 (1,500)
Seat 5: Jebsky (1,500)
Seat 6: maadjesta (1,500)
Seat 7: checkmateAA (1,500)
Seat 8: Dylan2e (1,500)
Seat 9: HFNMIKE (1,500)
xtremlee posts the small blind of 15
Danikar PN posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Danikar PN [Qh 9c]
fansetele folds
xLeMoNHeADx53 calls 30
Jebsky folds
maadjesta folds
checkmateAA folds
Dylan2e calls 30
HFNMIKE folds
xtremlee calls 15
Danikar PN checks
*** FLOP *** [Ad Qc 9h]
xtremlee checks
Danikar PN checks
xLeMoNHeADx53 checks
Dylan2e bets 120
xtremlee calls 120
Danikar PN raises to 360
xLeMoNHeADx53 folds
Dylan2e folds
xtremlee calls 240
*** TURN *** [Ad Qc 9h] [8d]
xtremlee checks
Danikar PN bets 960
xtremlee calls 960
*** RIVER *** [Ad Qc 9h 8d] [4s]
xtremlee checks
Danikar PN bets 150, and is all in
xtremlee calls 150, and is all in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Danikar PN shows [Qh 9c] two pair, Queens and Nines
xtremlee shows [Ac 9d] two pair, Aces and Nines
xtremlee wins the pot (3,180) with two pair, Aces and Nines
Danikar PN stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3,180 | Rake 0
Board: [Ad Qc 9h 8d 4s]
Seat 1: xtremlee (small blind) showed [Ac 9d] and won (3,180) with two pair, Aces and Nines
Seat 2: Danikar PN (big blind) showed [Qh 9c] and lost with two pair, Queens and Nines
Seat 3: fansetele didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: xLeMoNHeADx53 folded on the Flop
Seat 5: Jebsky didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: maadjesta didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: checkmateAA didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: Dylan2e folded on the Flop
Seat 9: HFNMIKE (button) didn't bet (folded) |
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hghlndr6
Straight Flush
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 387
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:28 am Post subject: |
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First of all, Q9o is not a great hand. So you're BB and you check, hoping the flop will hit you ...that's OK. And it does. 2 pair, OK. Not the top card, though. That Ace may be troublesome.
xtremlee calls a pot-size bet on the flop and then calls your 3x raise. Doesn't that tell you something? Seems like you were too focused on YOUR cards when you should have been considering what the other guy's betting is telling you. |
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hghlndr6
Straight Flush
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 387
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Suggestion for you. In the future, don't post results. Truncate your hand history at the point where you want to know what you should have done. You'll get better analysis that way. |
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renegades8
Forum Fish
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 3402
Location: spewing @ 25NL
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| hghlndr6 wrote: |
First of all, Q9o is not a great hand. So you're BB and you check, hoping the flop will hit you ...that's OK. And it does. 2 pair, OK. Not the top card, though. That Ace may be troublesome.
xtremlee calls a pot-size bet on the flop and then calls your 3x raise. Doesn't that tell you something? Seems like you were too focused on YOUR cards when you should have been considering what the other guy's betting is telling you. |
I'm pretty sure your response would be completely different if he hadn't posted the results. Just because he showed a better hand doesn't mean that you played it poorly, in fact I bet if he removed the results from the hand history you would say that hero is very likely to be ahead here. So to the OP, please convert your hands in the future as it's much easier to read (if you want I can send you links to some times that do it for you), and make sure to remove the results so we can provide unbiased opinions on how you played the hand.
Seems like overall you just got kind of coolered, I doubt you can really get away from this on any street. If you're going to check/raise the flop, though, make it closer to 500 since it's 3-handed and it's a draw-heavy board. This way you get more money in on the flop against draws and Ax's, and it's easier to just shove the turn. Otherwise it just seems to be unlucky, don't worry about the results since quite frankly in hold'em you can't always just wait for the nuts. |
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dcdoorknob
Royal Flush
Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 929
Location: Mississippi
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:07 am Post subject: |
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If you aren't busting out when you hit 2 pair on a board like this (on the occasion you are beat), you probably aren't getting nearly enough value out of your 2 pair hands for all the times you aren't beat.
I might raise a little bigger on the flop, and don't see much point in less than all in on the turn, but overall no huge errors in your play imo.
Last edited by dcdoorknob on Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Danikar PN
High Card
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:07 am Post subject: |
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Yeah I have been looking for some links to convert my hand history.
Thanks for the advice. |
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renegades8
Forum Fish
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 3402
Location: spewing @ 25NL
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hghlndr6
Straight Flush
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 387
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| renegades8 wrote: |
| hghlndr6 wrote: |
First of all, Q9o is not a great hand. So you're BB and you check, hoping the flop will hit you ...that's OK. And it does. 2 pair, OK. Not the top card, though. That Ace may be troublesome.
xtremlee calls a pot-size bet on the flop and then calls your 3x raise. Doesn't that tell you something? Seems like you were too focused on YOUR cards when you should have been considering what the other guy's betting is telling you. |
I'm pretty sure your response would be completely different if he hadn't posted the results. Just because he showed a better hand doesn't mean that you played it poorly, in fact I bet if he removed the results from the hand history you would say that hero is very likely to be ahead here. So to the OP, please convert your hands in the future as it's much easier to read (if you want I can send you links to some times that do it for you), and make sure to remove the results so we can provide unbiased opinions on how you played the hand.
Seems like overall you just got kind of coolered, I doubt you can really get away from this on any street. If you're going to check/raise the flop, though, make it closer to 500 since it's 3-handed and it's a draw-heavy board. This way you get more money in on the flop against draws and Ax's, and it's easier to just shove the turn. Otherwise it just seems to be unlucky, don't worry about the results since quite frankly in hold'em you can't always just wait for the nuts. |
Yes. Absent the results, I would likely recommend a huge raise on the flop to get the other guy off his hand. But ... in the very first hand ... where you have no reads on anybody ...I dunno. You know I'm basically conservative ..I could have gone either way.
You're the forum fish? I thought that was me.  |
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hghlndr6
Straight Flush
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 387
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:28 am Post subject: |
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Renegades ... thought about it some more and (trying not to think of the result) I'm raising it big time OTF, but if he calls (and i suspect he will ...$5 SnG, ya know), I'm laying it down if the turn doesn't give me a cinch hand. It's just the first hand ... lots more to go.
OP -- I'm a conservative type. TIFWIW |
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Peepers_au
Four of a Kind
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 276
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| dcdoorknob wrote: |
If you aren't busting out when you hit 2 pair on a board like this (on the occasion you are beat), you probably aren't getting nearly enough value out of your 2 pair hands for all the times you aren't beat.
I might raise a little bigger on the flop, and don't see much point in less than all in on the turn, but overall no huge errors in your play imo. |
Agreed.
The turn does open up the possibility of JT being a problem, but you have to think you have the best hand on the flop. |
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renegades8
Forum Fish
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 3402
Location: spewing @ 25NL
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| hghlndr6 wrote: |
Renegades ... thought about it some more and (trying not to think of the result) I'm raising it big time OTF, but if he calls (and i suspect he will ...$5 SnG, ya know), I'm laying it down if the turn doesn't give me a cinch hand. It's just the first hand ... lots more to go.
OP -- I'm a conservative type. TIFWIW |
If you make it 500 on the flop, you're almost commited to the hand on the turn because the pots so large and your hand is so strong. As you mentioned he is likely to call merely because it's a $5 SNG, which means he's calling with lots of hands there, many in which you have beat. Your hand is so strong that you're likely ahead here, and if you raise more on the flop you're basically forced to shove the turn. There's no way you can get away from this hand really. |
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Sand Wedge_100
Straight
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| Peepers_au wrote: |
| dcdoorknob wrote: |
If you aren't busting out when you hit 2 pair on a board like this (on the occasion you are beat), you probably aren't getting nearly enough value out of your 2 pair hands for all the times you aren't beat.
I might raise a little bigger on the flop, and don't see much point in less than all in on the turn, but overall no huge errors in your play imo. |
Agreed.
The turn does open up the possibility of JT being a problem, but you have to think you have the best hand on the flop. |
You guys are "probally" right but lately I have lost more in the BB with flops just like this and even top2 than any other position. The BB is giving me fits. It's the only pos I have a loosing stat in "not including the blind". Seems like folks just don't believe the BB can have a hand and call off their chips with "any" pair then hit str8s, 4flushs, over pairs etc you know the drill and its not because I'm not aggressive enough. He!! it don't matter lately if I bet it, over bet it, or sloplay it I'll get outdrawn if I'm the BB. The SB is a dif storey am almost at the point that I want to play every SB ATC any bet, but I know it only hits if you fold. He!! its POKER aint it.  |
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nilgiri
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 1371
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:44 am Post subject: |
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First of all, playing from BB you are almost always OOP, which means you just aren't going to be as profitable as in other positions. You are playing blind, because -- unless SB is in the hand -- you are first to act (even with SB in the hand, you are second to act, and this isn't good either in a multi-way pot). This is why the button is the most profitable position.
Second, I don't know whether you are calling a lot of raises from BB simply because you have already put in some chips. If you are, this is a really bad leak.
Third, if you are truly losing most of the time you get it in good from the BB, this is just variance and means you haven't played enough for your stats to smooth out. If this isn't a stat, but just a "feeling," then stop listening to feelings that tell you you are losing too much when you get it all in with hands far ahead of your opponent. It's a silly thing to listen to, and will never help your play good poker, only help you lose more. |
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renegades8
Forum Fish
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 3402
Location: spewing @ 25NL
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Sand Wedge_100 wrote: |
| Peepers_au wrote: |
| dcdoorknob wrote: |
If you aren't busting out when you hit 2 pair on a board like this (on the occasion you are beat), you probably aren't getting nearly enough value out of your 2 pair hands for all the times you aren't beat.
I might raise a little bigger on the flop, and don't see much point in less than all in on the turn, but overall no huge errors in your play imo. |
Agreed.
The turn does open up the possibility of JT being a problem, but you have to think you have the best hand on the flop. |
You guys are "probally" right but lately I have lost more in the BB with flops just like this and even top2 than any other position. The BB is giving me fits. It's the only pos I have a loosing stat in "not including the blind". Seems like folks just don't believe the BB can have a hand and call off their chips with "any" pair then hit str8s, 4flushs, over pairs etc you know the drill and its not because I'm not aggressive enough. He!! it don't matter lately if I bet it, over bet it, or sloplay it I'll get outdrawn if I'm the BB. The SB is a dif storey am almost at the point that I want to play every SB ATC any bet, but I know it only hits if you fold. He!! its POKER aint it. |
Don't you want people calling off their chips with any pair? Maybe poker isn't for you... |
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bingy1990
Four of a Kind
Joined: 01 Nov 2007
Posts: 346
Location: Enjoying my poker.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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It's always difficult in the first hand as you don't know the players (most of the time). Its also a $5 sit&go and you get a whole mixture of players in there, good and bad.
On a rainbow flop like that and against a guy I didn't know I would probably lose alot of my chips too. Try to keep the pot relatively small though. If it pairs on 4th or 5th street and you've only got 300 chips left your going to be in a real mess! |
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