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Zophar · Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: $25NL Line check AKo OOP

I've started playing NLHE again but am still pretty rusty/always been ignorant in some areas. This is maybe the villians 10th or so hand, so no read at all yet on villian.

I've posted my thoughts at the end of the hand.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $43.45
UTG: $65.45
MP: $15.55
CO: $30.75
BTN: $3.30
SB: $25

Pre-Flop: A

K

dealt to Hero (BB)
UTG calls $0.25, MP folds, CO raises to $1.10, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.85, UTG folds

Flop: ($2.55) 5

T

K

(2 Players)
Hero bets $1.75, CO calls $1.75

Turn: ($6.05) 5

T

K

[ 5

] (2 Players)
Hero bets $3.75, CO calls $3.75

River: ($13.55) 5

T

K

5

[ J

] (2 Players)
Hero bets $7, CO calls $7

Results: $27.55 Pot ($1.35 Rake)
Hero showed A

K

(two pair, Kings and Fives) and WON $26.20 (+$12.60 NET)
CO mucked Q

K

(two pair, Kings and Fives) and LOST (-$13.60 NET)

One major area I've been having trouble with is 3 betting OOP, specifically postflop play on missed boards vs. unknown or difficult opponents. Certain boards I have no problem with, others I seem to get myself in trouble. Because of this, I've slowed down on 3betting OOP until I'm more comfortable at the table/with the game in general. *Also, I sometimes start to go overboard 3 betting and get myself into some big pots, with marginal hands, OOP. I've been getting better about this though.

Couple of questions.
Should I be 3 betting this the majority of the time here? Atleast vs. say 18/12/1.5's +?
Did I bet too little on turn/river? I'm now thinking atleast $10 OTR. OTT I maybe should have been closer to $4 or $4.50. Not certain.
I figured the lead out was ok given my hand. Looking back, I think I had some concern for an over pr. or set, which now seems silly as it's such a small part of his range.

Any suggestions appreciated.

GoldenDomer9 · Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject:

To me this is definitely a 3-bet pre flop imo. As played, I don't like leading on all 3 streets and I probably check/call river.

nilgiri · Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:41 pm Post subject:

I don't know whether 3-betting is best or not. I tend to always bet AK no matter what position I am in, but it may be more profitable to smooth call in some situations.

As for whether to bet more, OTT definitely. I would maybe even bet a bit more OTF, but then I tend to c-bet 2-flush flop bigger whether or not I have a hand, so if you don't, this would be a tell. Keep in mind when you donk this flop it's a big tell that you have a K or better, so OTT I'd bet much closer to pot, because I'm now afraid of draws. (I'd usually c/r this flop.) River I don't know -- I would be a little scared of a straight after giving away that we have a K, and a flush draw is also a big part of his range. So I might check/call here and let him bluff a missed flush.

HuJwang · Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:14 pm Post subject:

I would always 3-bet against a CO raiser unless they are extremely passive (<5% raise) preflop. I don't mind your play on the rest of the hand, though I might bet a little more on the turn and sometimes check/call the river, if i don't think he's calling with much worse, but might bluff a missed draw.

bdbranch · Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:57 pm Post subject:

Blackray · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:17 am Post subject:

bdbranch · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:26 am Post subject:

Blackray · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:47 am Post subject:

Riddim · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:09 pm Post subject:

Even if you're sticking to a tight 3-betting range until you're more comfortable in these spots, AK should always be in it unless you have some very odd (for 25NL) reason to play it otherwise. It's just a really big hand in spots like this and limiting your 3-betting range to QQ+ also has the potential to cause all sorts of issues besides not getting enough value from the hands you're calling with instead of 3-betting.

As played I'd tend to c/r the flop rather than lead because this flop is going to have given villain some kind of worse pair or draw that he will bet/call with so often. On turn I definitely agree about betting more and on the river I'm not sure what I prefer.

I kinda dislike the c/c that some have talked about against most players though. Villain is usually going to check it back if he has a pair, so you'll often only beat A9-A2 of spades and 98 or worse of spades and frequently not even that. Overall I think you can probably count on the times he bets some kind of worse one pair hand and the times he checks back air to roughly cancel each other out, leaving you with the previously mentioned range of missed spades.

The problem is that a lot of villains won't even raise those hands after a limper, meaning that you're very frequently just getting taken to valuetown when you c/c. When you bet/fold however, you don't really get value from anything but the hand he had here and the occasional QJ/K9. After thinking about this for a while I'm starting to feel like some sort of blocker bet or a c/f may even be best. I don't really know how often your average 25NL player will spazz out and do something weird here though, and this can definitely have an impact on our decision.

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