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shortydawg
Three of a Kind
Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 81
Location: Maine, USA
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 Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:56 pm Post subject: 100nl (line check) |
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Not much known about the players at the table. This was only my 22nd hand I was trying to create an aggressive image. Not sure if my turn check was correct, but I felt that the 6 gave me a solid lock on the hand barring a 10.
Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter
SB: $109.75
BB: $97
UTG: $100
CO: $189.60
shortydawg (BTN): $102.70
Pre-Flop: 4 6 dealt to shortydawg (BTN)
2 folds, shortydawg raises to $3.50, SB calls $3, BB folds
Flop: ($8) 6 5 T (2 Players)
SB bets $8, shortydawg raises to $24, SB calls $16
Turn: ($56) 6 (2 Players)
SB checks, shortydawg checks
River: ($56) K (2 Players)
SB checks, shortydawg bets $30, SB folds |
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nilgiri
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 1543
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd definitely continue betting the turn. You seem to be checking because you are ahead and can afford to see a free card? I think you are not getting as much money as you could this way. You are going to get more money from the turn than from the river (not to mention the times you get called OTR as well). That is, you are more likely to get a call OTT and a fold OTR than a call OTR. And sometimes you get a call OTT and OTR, which is even better. |
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renegades8
Forum Fish
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 3532
Location: spewing @ 25NL
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| Personally I'm not crazy about raises like this on the button early on in your session, especially if you've been trying to build an aggressive image. I'm sure you can come up with reasoning as to why you do this, so no big deal. Bet the turn for value so that you can get him to put money in while there's still a card to come/before a scare card comes. You guys still have a bit too much behind to do this, and I doubt you're gaining any value by checking the turn. I just see him calling the turn much more often than the river. He probably is also more likely to undervalue your hand on the turn than he is on most rivers. |
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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 6018
Location: Halifax, NS
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:03 am Post subject: |
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| renegades8 wrote: |
| Personally I'm not crazy about raises like this on the button early on in your session, especially if you've been trying to build an aggressive image. |
if you aren't raising 64s on the button when it's folded to you, you are playing way way way too tight OTB. assuming normal circumstances you should be raising like 40-50% of your hands in this spot. the only times you should really be tightening up here are if the blinds are short stacked, if they have been 3-betting you a ton, or if they are really horrible and crazy postflop (e.g. they bet, raise and stack off with all kinds of random draws, pairs, and air). in the last case, i don't mind openlimping the button with quite a few drawing hands.
as for the hand, against an unknown i would basically always bet this turn card around $30 or so. it gets value from draws, and it is small so some players may go ahead and take it as a sign of weakness, and shove over it. if i think the player is likely to not have much and will usually fold to a turn bet, but will bluff the river if you check turn, then i like checking. but my standard play is to make a smallish bet which can be interpreted as weakness. |
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renegades8
Forum Fish
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 3532
Location: spewing @ 25NL
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| HuJwang wrote: |
| renegades8 wrote: |
| Personally I'm not crazy about raises like this on the button early on in your session, especially if you've been trying to build an aggressive image. |
if you aren't raising 64s on the button when it's folded to you, you are playing way way way too tight OTB. assuming normal circumstances you should be raising like 40-50% of your hands in this spot. the only times you should really be tightening up here are if the blinds are short stacked, if they have been 3-betting you a ton, or if they are really horrible and crazy postflop (e.g. they bet, raise and stack off with all kinds of random draws, pairs, and air). in the last case, i don't mind openlimping the button with quite a few drawing hands. |
I guess I am nitty in spots like this at 10NL/25NL since I just end up getting called off alot and end up getting frustated, I guess I shouldn't really since it's still probably profitable. I'm sure that if I played like 50NL or 100NL I'd open in this spot with a wider range OTB, but I almost feel as though it's not really necessary to do so at the micro limits. Also, wouldn't you rather play hands that are a bit bigger and are connectors instead of playing a hand like this? I just feel as though it's hard to play these kinds of hands post-flop, maybe I would get used to it if I opened up a bit I guess. |
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Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 7705
Location: Quitting smoking
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| Bet the turn and probably bet a bit bigger on the river as played. You're just losing out on so much value from other draws and tens and stuff by checking back the turn, not to mention that it completely goes against what you said about establishing an aggressive image. On the river I think the hands that look you up for $30 usually call a bit more. Looking through the hand again I'd raise more on the flop as well. Making it around $30 gives you a bit more FE and also lets you shove the turn or river more comfortably if you want to do that. |
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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 6018
Location: Halifax, NS
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| renegades8 wrote: |
| HuJwang wrote: |
| renegades8 wrote: |
| Personally I'm not crazy about raises like this on the button early on in your session, especially if you've been trying to build an aggressive image. |
if you aren't raising 64s on the button when it's folded to you, you are playing way way way too tight OTB. assuming normal circumstances you should be raising like 40-50% of your hands in this spot. the only times you should really be tightening up here are if the blinds are short stacked, if they have been 3-betting you a ton, or if they are really horrible and crazy postflop (e.g. they bet, raise and stack off with all kinds of random draws, pairs, and air). in the last case, i don't mind openlimping the button with quite a few drawing hands. |
I guess I am nitty in spots like this at 10NL/25NL since I just end up getting called off alot and end up getting frustated, I guess I shouldn't really since it's still probably profitable. I'm sure that if I played like 50NL or 100NL I'd open in this spot with a wider range OTB, but I almost feel as though it's not really necessary to do so at the micro limits. Also, wouldn't you rather play hands that are a bit bigger and are connectors instead of playing a hand like this? I just feel as though it's hard to play these kinds of hands post-flop, maybe I would get used to it if I opened up a bit I guess. |
well just start opening up gradually. if the lowest suited connector you'd go down to OTB is normally T9s, then add in 98s and 87s for a bit, then stuff like 54s and 86s, and then maybe even some offsuit connectors. with some practice, and paying attention, you'll notice which kinds of flops your opponent is more likely to have hit, and refrain from betting those. also, while it sounds a bit insane at first, some of the less crazy calling stations can actually be double- and even triple-barrelled profitably. they will often call the flop with overcards, a low pair, or a gutshot, but then fold later on if they haven't improved. remember, most hands will miss the flop 2/3 of the time. even when they do hit, they may not have hit strongly. if someone is calling more than 50% of cbets, they can't possibly have a hand every time.
like i said, don't try to add all these moves into your game at once.. just be observant and try to recognize spots where you think these kinds of moves will work. and most importantly don't try to overdo it... one of my current biggest leaks is that i've become too laggy and just end up spewing a lot. still, what i am doing is probably more profitable (though much higher variance) than just giving up all the time just because the guy called one bet. |
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renegades8
Forum Fish
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 3532
Location: spewing @ 25NL
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| HuJwang wrote: |
well just start opening up gradually. if the lowest suited connector you'd go down to OTB is normally T9s, then add in 98s and 87s for a bit, then stuff like 54s and 86s, and then maybe even some offsuit connectors. with some practice, and paying attention, you'll notice which kinds of flops your opponent is more likely to have hit, and refrain from betting those. also, while it sounds a bit insane at first, some of the less crazy calling stations can actually be double- and even triple-barrelled profitably. they will often call the flop with overcards, a low pair, or a gutshot, but then fold later on if they haven't improved. remember, most hands will miss the flop 2/3 of the time. even when they do hit, they may not have hit strongly. if someone is calling more than 50% of cbets, they can't possibly have a hand every time.
like i said, don't try to add all these moves into your game at once.. just be observant and try to recognize spots where you think these kinds of moves will work. and most importantly don't try to overdo it... one of my current biggest leaks is that i've become too laggy and just end up spewing a lot. still, what i am doing is probably more profitable (though much higher variance) than just giving up all the time just because the guy called one bet. |
Okay thanks, will do. Thanks for the in-depth reply.  |
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