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jeremysuave · Pair Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Posts: 37

Have a question:

Do you like to shove once you get to down to 10BB's? Some of the stragedy play that I have seen seem to advocate this.

I'm a fairly tight player (trying to learn to play somehat looser when the odds and/or position allow) and I can't seem to justify shoving in at what is probably just a coin flip's chance anyway, even if I have the betterof two unpaired hands should I get a call.

In my opinion, I know that if I'm am sittting comfortably in chips, and some small stack shoves in, my A10 looks pretty good.

Any ideas?

cardfish2 · Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject:

In an SnG with no antes (like full tilt has), I tend to wait a little longer before shoving. I wait until around 7 or 8 BBs.

On the A10 hand, if you have a lot of chips and think you are ahead then make the call. The key is to pay attention to how the small stack is playing to see if you are ahead of their range.

Pokit2s · Message Board Junkie Joined: 22 Jun 2005 Posts: 1261

On the A 10 subject, make sure you really take a look at what your stack will be if you call and loose. Sure if you have 1650 in chips, an all in from a guy with 550 doesnt seem like much, when in reality it is 1/3rd of your stack and can be very costly come bubble time.

jeremysuave · Pair Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Posts: 37

About the A10 comment, it was just an example of what other players maybe thinking when they see a small stack shove.

When shoving, is the purpose to steal the blinds or to hopefully get a mediocre hand to call and try to double up?

Like I said earlier, even if you get a hand to call, you normally aren't much better than the high end of coin flip.

I'm not sure I like gambling with my tourny life on a coin flip. The confusing part is that I've read where successful players advocate this.

cardfish2 · Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:12 pm Post subject:

I consider the shove to be a blind steal. What it does is gives you enough chips for one more time arounf the table. If you can steal blinds once per round you can stay in the game indefinitely even with a short stack until you pick up some good hands.

dcdoorknob · Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:19 pm Post subject:

Shoving is often the best alternative when you have a hand that you intend to play and around 10 BBs.

Limping is weak and passive, and if you get raised behind, you are either folding and you just waisted 1/10th of your stack, or you are calling and are playing a big pot with the hand anyways without being the aggressor in the hand or having any chance of winning the pot preflop.

A raise less than all in will usually pot commit you to calling a reraise since you have so little left behind, only this way you again are calling off your chips with no chance to win but at showdown, or making what is probably a bad fold and crippling yourself in the process. It can also lead to very awkward spots postflop where you are just called and you are usually faced with the decision to either bluff off the rest of your chips or give up the pot which is as big as your stack without a fight.

Both of these options are quite often just flat out bad, so shoving becomes the best alternative (if you are going to play at all). By shoving you have 2 ways to win the hand, you can either take the blinds or get called and win the showdown.

That in a nutshell is the theory behind shoving with 10 BBs or less.

Badlydrawnboy · Flush Joined: 28 Jan 2008 Posts: 127

Still, I would keep in mind the circumstances. Say you're in a SnG and around the bubble. 4 people left, and one major chip leader, let's say he has like 6000 chips and you all have 1000.

I wouldn't shove so easily there because I will either get called by someone with a better hand, or by the big stack for whom it's only 1/6th of his stack.

Also, I sometimes think 10xBB is a little too early. In fact, it's just a random number someone used. What you're looking for is the following situation: blinds very high, dwindling stack, still a lot of fold equity though and a reasonable hand = shove!

Whether you do that with 10xBB left or 7xBB left doesn't matter so much, I think.

Lord Xail · High Card Joined: 19 Feb 2008 Posts: 19

I don't think 10BB it's a random number...
If u raise 3x e one call, there will be 7,5 in the pot and 7 it's your stakes..what u do then?

Badlydrawnboy · Flush Joined: 28 Jan 2008 Posts: 127

Lord Xail · High Card Joined: 19 Feb 2008 Posts: 19

Yes but the almost always u will be in position and he will check..with and without a hand...
If u do a CB u are all inn.. so if in your mind u are going more often then not going for the CB then it's better to shove pre flop IMHO..

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