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AlexScottUK · Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:03 am Post subject: How pants am I at Stud?

An hour and a half into tonight's big HORSE tournament, and we're playing Stud. The limits are 200/400, and there is a 30 ante. I have a meagre 2241 in chips after bricking out a lot in Razz. The villain in the hand has 4100.

A five brings in, somebody folds, then an ace raises. It's folded round to me in second last position and I call with (Q-10)-J, with two hearts. The dead cards are A 5 5 7 7 8 T, so my pairing cards and straight cards are pretty live. Everyone else folds.

First of all - should I even call here? I made the call because the high card had usually been raising on third street and I didn't necessarily put my opponent on a pair of aces. I also thought my cards were nice and live and I had plenty of chances to suck out and win a nice big pot if he did have aces.

So... we see fourth street with 690 in the pot.

He catches an offsuit trey for a board of (x-x)-A-3, and I catch an offsuit king for a board of (Q-10)-J-K. He bets, and I call, which I think is pretty automatic once I've decided to play the hand.

Fifth (1090 in the pot):

He catches another trey for (x-x)-A-3-3. I catch a nine to make my straight - (Q-10)-J-K-9. He bets, I raise, he reraises, and I cap it. He calls. I have 211 in chips left.

Sixth (4290 in the pot):

This is where it all goes badly wrong. He catches a third trey for a board of (x-x)-A-3-3-3 . I catch a ten which is irrelevant.

He bets.

I seriously consider laying the hand down. Would anyone do that, and play on with less than a small bet?

I think for ages. I'm getting over 21 to 1, but I'm drawing dead if he has a full house (I can't make a straight flush). I finally call for three reasons - the pot odds, the fact that I'll be ridiculously short anyway if I fold, and the possibility that he raised on third with a hand like A-K-Q and I'm actually winning.

Of course, he has the full house like he's supposed to and I bust out of the tournament.

I'm sad to admit that I played the hand like a bit of a donkey. I don't have too much experience in Stud compared to the other games. So come on - what would you have done differently? Was I optimistic on third? Should I actually have folded on sixth?

Hand history attached for the programmer-types who prefer reading them.

[size=9]Full Tilt Poker Game #410561782: Sunday Night HORSE (2525939), Table 13 - 200/400 Ante 30 - Limit Seven Card Stud - 23:05:08 ET - 2006/01/29
Seat 1: missbec31 (2,220)
Seat 2: 12steplife (1,400)
Seat 3: AlexScottUK (2,241)
Seat 4: dmarch (1,098)
Seat 5: harryn55 (1,374)
Seat 6: CincyPro (4,952)
Seat 7: AKQJackass (4,100)
Seat 8: Big Chicago (3,465)
missbec31 antes 30
12steplife antes 30
AlexScottUK antes 30
dmarch antes 30
harryn55 antes 30
CincyPro antes 30
AKQJackass antes 30
Big Chicago antes 30
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to missbec31 [7s]
Dealt to 12steplife [Td]
Dealt to AlexScottUK [Qh Th] [Jd]
Dealt to dmarch [8h]
Dealt to harryn55 [5c]
Dealt to CincyPro [5s]
Dealt to AKQJackass [Ad]
Dealt to Big Chicago [7h]
harryn55 is low with [5c]
harryn55 brings in for 50
CincyPro folds
AKQJackass completes it to 200
Big Chicago folds
missbec31 folds
12steplife folds
AlexScottUK calls 200
dmarch folds
harryn55 folds
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to AlexScottUK [Qh Th Jd] [Ks]
Dealt to AKQJackass [Ad] [3c]
AKQJackass bets 200
AlexScottUK calls 200
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to AlexScottUK [Qh Th Jd Ks] [9h]
Dealt to AKQJackass [Ad 3c] [3h]
AKQJackass bets 400
AlexScottUK raises to 800
AKQJackass raises to 1,200
AlexScottUK raises to 1,600
AKQJackass calls 400
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to AlexScottUK [Qh Th Jd Ks 9h] [Tc]
Dealt to AKQJackass [Ad 3c 3h] [3s]
AKQJackass bets 400
AlexScottUK: no way
AlexScottUK has 15 seconds left to act
AlexScottUK calls 211, and is all in
AKQJackass shows [As Kd Ad 3c 3h 3s]
AlexScottUK shows [

DevilfishFan · Royal Flush Joined: 09 Sep 2005 Posts: 906

I play tight tight tight in stud, but with the high card raising every hand you have to see fourth with big connectors and a two flush on the side. When you hit that open ender you had to see 5th, and when you made the straight you had to go broke. Crappy situation. Most players would push it all in without thinking about it.

mathman1115 · Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:58 am Post subject:

The only questionable thing in the entire hand was that you played it after the complete. But i would have too really with those 1st three cards. Once you hit K on 4th street, no one folds that hand. And once you hit str8 on 5th, you want to get your money in. YOu can't fold the hand you stayed in to make, so after that it was just bad luck. On the other hand, he represented strength by completing like he should have, and i was pretty easy to tell he had the boat. But like i said, you can't fold the hand you stayed in to make, so it was just one of those things

KGBlovesOreos · Moderator Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 5318 Location: VA

i consider stud to be my best game, so i'll help ya out...

i really dont see much wrong with your play up until 4th street, where i would have raised... raising here does two things: A) it puts pressure on him to fold, especially considering the fact that you were shortstacked and he would have seen that you were pot committed... if you raised, he would have realized that all your chips were going to go into the pot pretty much no matter what... he probably would've folded in this spot...
B)if you raise, it sets up the chance to get a free card down the road in the hand... the reason this is so is b/c usually when somebody gets raised (and they dont have a great hand), they will check to you on the next street (and if you missed your draw, you would have been able to see one more free card)...

at the end of the hand, i would've called no matter what because you only have to be right 1 out of 11.5 times to make this call a profitable one... the pot is just too big to lay down your hand for one more bet, so i cant blame you for calling here... if you folded, its not like you would've had much of a chance to win the tournament anyways, so you might as well give yourself a chance to win by calling on 6th street...

AlexScottUK · Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:41 am Post subject:

Thanks for the feedback guys. I usually play very tightly on third in Stud, but I worry that if I overdo it I'll be in weak-tight territory which just doesn't get the money, especially in tournaments. I still think I need to find a balance (I'm starting to find it in Omaha which definitely used to be my worst game).

One quick point - I'm getting over 21 to 1 on the end, not just over 11.5 to one, since I am all-in for less than a big bet. I like the idea of raising fourth, and I've definitely done it before - usually with a very live flush draw. Its something I'll consider more often in future.

KGBlovesOreos · Moderator Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 5318 Location: VA

guitarguy178 · Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:24 pm Post subject:

I would have played that starting hand as well. Like you said he had been doing a lot of raising and your first read was that he didn't have the Ace. You had a lot of live cards to catch too. I'm not so sure about raising on fourth. Here is why I say this. What do you want to get out of it? Let's say he has the Ace in the hole. He isn't going to fold a hand when he is a small favorite. Even if you have two pair he is still only a small dog. When he calls or raises, sure you now know he has at least a pair of Aces, but you are almost a 50-50, you have to continue. If he doesn't have an ace, then you are a big favorite and you want him in the hand to extract more chips. As far as calling at the end, you had to. No point in playing on with less than a small bet.

All in all, you played it ok and just got unlucky. It happens to the best.

Zophar · Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:05 pm Post subject:

I couldn't say that you did anything wrong in the hand. I think even if you were a dominant chip leader, the outcome(you losing the hand) would have been the same.

My question is, what the hell does pants mean?

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