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fiddlepuck
Three of a Kind
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 77
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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 Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: 50NL SET on a 4 flushed board |
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ME: I have played 24% of hands, and won 70% of those. I have gotten "lucky" once, when I had KQ on a K109 board agaisnt a $13 dollar shortstack who flopped a set, and I hit straight. Otherwise, Im only showing down AA, JJ, and Im staying away form naked continuation bets, casue , well, Im hitting.
Villian: Very Quiet. Steady. No real read here. he def isnt spewey, maybe a little passive. likely a typical 50NL player. TIGHT TIGHT TIGHT.
Thoughts here? its a 4 way flop. So I kind of wanna see a river, before I go nuts. Too many variables make my hand vulnerable in my mind? Maybe too passive? (on flop) On the turn, the guy almost gives me odds to call to hit the FH. Which is a pretty lame fishy move IMO. So when I hit the house, I figure if he has the nut card, hes fishy enough to call the big bet, and if he doesnt have the nut card, hes not calling much anyways, so why not gamble? Am I a complete moron here?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Converter Tool from (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
UTG ($82.65)
MP ($42.15)
Hero ($86.85)
SB ($52)
BB ($47.45)
Preflop: Hero is Button with 8 , 8 .
UTG calls $0.50, 1 fold, BB raises to $2, UTG calls $1.50, Hero calls $1.50, SB calls $1.50.
Flop: ($7.25) 6 , 3, 8 (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets $2.5, Hero calls $2.50, SB folds, BB folds.
Turn: ($12.25) T (2 players),UTG bets $4,
Hero calls $4.
River: ($20.25) 6 (2 players)
UTG bets $13, Hero raises to $78.35, UTG........ |
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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 5620
Location: Halifax, NS
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| I really hate the flop call. Raise and get it in. Everything else looks fine. |
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Bruce10
Flush
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 139
Location: sunny Southern Cal
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Certainly not moron, I don't think. I see your reasoning is sound. If he has the Ac, would he call that much on the river? Would he perhaps only call that much on the very off-chance he has TT or 66? Personally, I would probably bet about 40$ on the river, but that's just personal preference. I'd rather have $40 in the hand than $78 in the bush. But your play is solid IMO. |
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sixandfour
Royal Flush
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 536
Location: Far from home
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Pretty standard throughout, except flatting the flop as HuJwang said. I like the river bet. If he's got the big flush (which it looks like), he can't get off cheap unless he makes a big laydown most people can't make. |
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Honest_Rob
Postmaster General
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 5350
Location: trying to get back to even
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Check your converter imo. |
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live4freerolls
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 1939
Location: In muh chair
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, I hate converted hand histories. But looks standard other than not raising flop. And I'd probably raise it pre but I can't really tell whats going on with converter. |
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esperz
Full House
Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 220
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent hand for you and also very standard.
You got lucky, but considering how much the guy is going to end up paying you, looks like you got proper odds after all.
Only problem I really saw was the flat call... Was a good bluff that just rolled into a monster. |
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fiddlepuck
Three of a Kind
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 77
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| How much would I rasie on the flop? How much consideation should I give the other two players yet to act on the flop? against 4 players, there is a reasonable chance Im already beat, and if I raise, will I know if Im being reraised by a flush or a an Ace of clubs??? This is definately my biggest hole in my game, flopping TPTK or sets on flushed boards.... Arent most people gonna draw with the Ace at most reasonable prices anyways? So arent more likely to earn "bluff" money by check calling it down, if a flush doesnt hit? my instinct says Im opening myself to a TOUGH decisoon or a small pot with a reasonable flop raise..... No?? |
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esperz
Full House
Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 220
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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Well... First off, its an empty board with the flush draw/made flush. No one's got pairs of anything unless its an overpair. You are holding the the top set. Only one other 8 is out there. Rest assured that if another person is holding an 8 it is EXTREMELY unlikely that the other card is not a club. Most people, even at this level, would not play 8x unless it was suited.
So, either the guy has a flush, on a flush draw, or an overpair which is extremely likely to be a flush draw as well.
At this point, only the made flush is a threat. You have to jack the crap out of that hand to deny pot odds to any flush drawer. So... on that flop, I'd re-raise to $6 (although I'd be very likely to bet 8 or 9) minimum. If the guy calls or raises that, you can rest assured of his hand.
While this might mean scarificing more money upfront if he does possess a flush, it allows you to do six things:
1.) Represent an already made flush to a flush drawer or at the very least a higher flush draw.
2.) Represent a higher flush to a flush better.
3.) Scares away every single non-flush better out of there.
4.) Decent possibilty of stealing the pot on the very next turn if there is no club from any continuing flush draws.
5.) Obscures a set in case of a FH from the 6 outs on the turn.
6.) Opponent is likely, in case of this tight, passive player, to check it down even if he posseses a flush.
It is, in my mind, better than having an opponent continuing to bet against you and having yourself unsure as to where he stands which WILL cost you alot more money in the long run. Give up the 6 and possibly take it anyway as opposed to 24 or more from an aggresive better. |
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fiddlepuck
Three of a Kind
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 77
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| awesome, thanks........... |
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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 5620
Location: Halifax, NS
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| esperz wrote: |
At this point, only the made flush is a threat. You have to jack the crap out of that hand to deny pot odds to any flush drawer. So... on that flop, I'd re-raise to $6 (although I'd be very likely to bet 8 or 9) minimum. If the guy calls or raises that, you can rest assured of his hand.
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$6 is way too low. I'd basically raise pretty close to pot. $10 is probably good.
| Quote: |
While this might mean scarificing more money upfront if he does possess a flush, it allows you to do six things:
1.) Represent an already made flush to a flush drawer or at the very least a higher flush draw.
2.) Represent a higher flush to a flush better.
3.) Scares away every single non-flush better out of there.
4.) Decent possibilty of stealing the pot on the very next turn if there is no club from any continuing flush draws.
5.) Obscures a set in case of a FH from the 6 outs on the turn.
6.) Opponent is likely, in case of this tight, passive player, to check it down even if he posseses a flush.
It is, in my mind, better than having an opponent continuing to bet against you and having yourself unsure as to where he stands which WILL cost you alot more money in the long run. Give up the 6 and possibly take it anyway as opposed to 24 or more from an aggresive better. |
Here's where I don't follow you. Why do you want to represent a high flush? Why are you trying to scare away non-flushes? And why are you talking about "stealing" the pot when we have a monster? Raising here is basically hoping that someone has a weaker hand that they can't fold, or that they make an unprofitable call (or even better, a re-raise) with a flush draw. We WANT to get money in the pot. |
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esperz
Full House
Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 220
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| HuJwang wrote: |
| esperz wrote: |
At this point, only the made flush is a threat. You have to jack the crap out of that hand to deny pot odds to any flush drawer. So... on that flop, I'd re-raise to $6 (although I'd be very likely to bet 8 or 9) minimum. If the guy calls or raises that, you can rest assured of his hand.
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$6 is way too low. I'd basically raise pretty close to pot. $10 is probably good.
| Quote: |
While this might mean scarificing more money upfront if he does possess a flush, it allows you to do six things:
1.) Represent an already made flush to a flush drawer or at the very least a higher flush draw.
2.) Represent a higher flush to a flush better.
3.) Scares away every single non-flush better out of there.
4.) Decent possibilty of stealing the pot on the very next turn if there is no club from any continuing flush draws.
5.) Obscures a set in case of a FH from the 6 outs on the turn.
6.) Opponent is likely, in case of this tight, passive player, to check it down even if he posseses a flush.
It is, in my mind, better than having an opponent continuing to bet against you and having yourself unsure as to where he stands which WILL cost you alot more money in the long run. Give up the 6 and possibly take it anyway as opposed to 24 or more from an aggresive better. |
Here's where I don't follow you. Why do you want to represent a high flush? Why are you trying to scare away non-flushes? And why are you talking about "stealing" the pot when we have a monster? Raising here is basically hoping that someone has a weaker hand that they can't fold, or that they make an unprofitable call (or even better, a re-raise) with a flush draw. We WANT to get money in the pot. |
6 dollars minimum. I myself would bet 8-9, but that's a personal decision.
And as for the second part... While a flush drawer might or probably would call the initial bet, we also have to keep in mind the guy might has already made his flush. If we assume he doesn't, then we can get ourselves into an all-in situation which we would lose pretty consistently.
If however, we represent a stronger flush or flush draw than the opponent, then we could possibly scare away the opponent in case yet another club lands. For example, if our opponent was holding JQ, JK, KQ or even misc. garbage clubs, then when that last club landed, my next course of action would to bet on the turn. If we bet low or simply called, then it would appear we're just tossing money on a losing hand (as happened to our man above). But if we're representing something else, then we can simply take the pot.
In the above hand, I'm very certain the man folded (unless he was holding the Ac), not because he thought the opponent had a full house, but because he thought his opponent had the Ac. Look at the hand from the opponent's angle. What did it look like he had? |
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