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jeffr8
Royal Flush
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 785
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 Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenDomer9 wrote: |
| jeffr8 wrote: |
| HuJwang wrote: |
| jeffr8 wrote: |
I love the minbet, ONLY on the flop though.
For example:
I get KK, raise up like 6bbs preflop, get 2 callers...
flop comes like K72, I MINBET, they sense weakness, and re-raise me...i ponder for a good 5 seconds, then call. Insta check the turn, they continuation bet and I hit the checkraise...
Love that play! |
Are you sure the play works because of the minbet, or is it because your opponents are just donks who are going to stack off no matter how you play? Chances are a good player isn't cold calling your 6bb raise anyway. |
Oh I assure you they're donks...seems like donks are all I ever get to play!
As for the 6bbs, this was just a hypothetical situation that I made up off the top of my head... but for sake of arguing; surely someone might have an AQ type hand, and possibly a 99ish playing position on the raiser...I'm never surprised if/when my 6x the BB raises gets two callers |
Jeff, I would also add that I don't think your play works here because of the min-bet. In fact, the play you mention isn't as sneaky as you think. It's actually pretty outdated and is almost the norm amongst many low stakes players. A min bet with AK on a KK3 board isn't so tricky imo, rather, a regular continuation bet will not only disguise your hand better, but build the pot on your monster.
Be careful in allocating results to a certain play, as they may not even be related. You may actually be limiting your winnings with something you had always thought was increasing them... |
First, I never claimed to invent the move.
Second, I WASN't talking about using the play when I flop trips, as that would be tough to disguise...I use it when I flop a set, which is harder to detect. And I didn't say it works everytime either, so the comment about it cutting my winnings just doesn't belong. If they don't bite on my minibet and raise me, then I'll just bet a reasonable amount on the turn |
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GoldenDomer9
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1832
Location: Omaha Tbls FTW
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| jeffr8 wrote: |
| GoldenDomer9 wrote: |
| jeffr8 wrote: |
| HuJwang wrote: |
| jeffr8 wrote: |
I love the minbet, ONLY on the flop though.
For example:
I get KK, raise up like 6bbs preflop, get 2 callers...
flop comes like K72, I MINBET, they sense weakness, and re-raise me...i ponder for a good 5 seconds, then call. Insta check the turn, they continuation bet and I hit the checkraise...
Love that play! |
Are you sure the play works because of the minbet, or is it because your opponents are just donks who are going to stack off no matter how you play? Chances are a good player isn't cold calling your 6bb raise anyway. |
Oh I assure you they're donks...seems like donks are all I ever get to play!
As for the 6bbs, this was just a hypothetical situation that I made up off the top of my head... but for sake of arguing; surely someone might have an AQ type hand, and possibly a 99ish playing position on the raiser...I'm never surprised if/when my 6x the BB raises gets two callers |
Jeff, I would also add that I don't think your play works here because of the min-bet. In fact, the play you mention isn't as sneaky as you think. It's actually pretty outdated and is almost the norm amongst many low stakes players. A min bet with AK on a KK3 board isn't so tricky imo, rather, a regular continuation bet will not only disguise your hand better, but build the pot on your monster.
Be careful in allocating results to a certain play, as they may not even be related. You may actually be limiting your winnings with something you had always thought was increasing them... |
First, I never claimed to invent the move.
Second, I WASN't talking about using the play when I flop trips, as that would be tough to disguise...I use it when I flop a set, which is harder to detect. And I didn't say it works everytime either, so the comment about it cutting my winnings just doesn't belong. If they don't bite on my minibet and raise me, then I'll just bet a reasonable amount on the turn |
First, I never claimed you invented the move.
Second, the same rationale applies for your trips example. Donkeys at low stakes can't detect where their ass is in relation to their forehead, let alone sniff out trips or sets. They aren't thinking, "Gee, I wonder if he has KK on a K 7 2 flop", they're thinking, "I have Ace-seven soooted, I am all in booooyyyyy!!!!"
But hey, you go ahead and keep on min bettin brotha. While you're at it, and since you'll continue doing it, you may as well keep telling yourself that you're tricking these imbeciles with your fancy-dancy minimum bets.
Best of luck at the tables,
GD9 |
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jeffr8
Royal Flush
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 785
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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I will continue to play that way, wanna know why? BECAUSE IT WORKS.
Sharkscope me, I'm up $7,450 and maintained a 78% ROI over the coarse of 780 games for a reason.
But I certainly appreciate all your help, you've really shaped me into the player I am today.
Best of luck to you, sir. |
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mistaken69
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 1567
Location: taking up smoking
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| i hate to be a sample size nit but lol @ 780 games being a legit sample size. |
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drtre1987
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1923
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| mistaken69 wrote: |
| i hate to be a sample size nit but lol @ 780 games being a legit sample size. |
lol @ someone's sng roi deciding whether or not a play is good
| gonefshng wrote: |
i.e. when you want someone to play back at you with air, "no problem".
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I still disagree with doing that. It is way too hard to balance your range correctly and still get the most positive expectation play when trying to mix in something like this. It will just be costing you money in the long run. |
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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 5872
Location: Halifax, NS
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| drtre1987 wrote: |
| mistaken69 wrote: |
| i hate to be a sample size nit but lol @ 780 games being a legit sample size. |
lol @ someone's sng roi deciding whether or not a play is good
| gonefshng wrote: |
i.e. when you want someone to play back at you with air, "no problem".
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I still disagree with doing that. It is way too hard to balance your range correctly and still get the most positive expectation play when trying to mix in something like this. It will just be costing you money in the long run. |
Well I think if a player is bad enough to make it a good play, balancing your range isn't really necessary. |
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drtre1987
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1923
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:31 am Post subject: |
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I completely agree HuJwang. I was just trying to point out that it is generally a bad idea to try to mix this into your general strategy. There are some players that this play could be good against, but I think people would be better off if they focused on fixing more prominent leaks in their game rather than try to find small leaks that happen only in very rare situations.
Also, this thread is giving me the impression that some people are getting way too trigger happy with min bets. If players are good enough to recognize that your min bet is weak and raise it, then they are probably good enough to understand that you are making a lot of cbets. If this is the case, then I think you should just be playing a strong, solid strategy rather than take fishy lines to try to get into meta game and such.
Last edited by drtre1987 on Mon May 19, 2008 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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cubbies760
Next Year Is Here
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 6594
Location: Suburban Chicago
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| drtre1987 wrote: |
| Also, this thread is giving me the impression that some people are getting way too trigger happy with min bets. If players are good enough to recognize that your min bet is weak and raise it, then they are probably good enough to understand that you are making a lot of cbets. |
I'm just seeing SO many people who use the same exact line....using the minimum bet 90% of the time, regardless of anything else.
I was beginning to wonder if I'm viewed as the fish here, but I can honestly say that the majority of my increasing bankroll is funded by HU wins. |
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