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Starvingwriter
Flush
Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 146
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 Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: Playing Those Middle Pairs |
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I'm curious how people like to handle the midrange pocket pairs (88, 99, TT).
Assume as a base line that it's early on in a 9 man SnG with all players remaining. You look down and see a middle pocket pair.
What if...
...you're first to act?
...no one is in the pot yet and 2-3 players have folded in front of you?
...a player has called in front of you?
...a player has raised in front of you?
... a player has raised and been reraised in front of you?
A lot of the time I'll just call with them if there's a fair amount of calling or a small raise followed by a few calls. These are the times I'm looking to spike a set or check/fold.
I'm more curious how people play it when it seems clear that a strong raise could get you in heads up, or at least without a horde of players in the pot.
What's the best way to squeeze value out of these hands? Raising preflop feels dangerous, but I feel like I'm losing value when I just call and then check/fold to a flop with overcards. |
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Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 6442
Location: Quitting smoking
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Playing Those Middle Pairs |
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| Starvingwriter wrote: |
I'm curious how people like to handle the midrange pocket pairs (88, 99, TT).
Assume as a base line that it's early on in a 9 man SnG with all players remaining. You look down and see a middle pocket pair.
What if...
...you're first to act? |
I think it's a limp most of the time with 88-99. With TT you can go either way depending on how comfortable you are with it postflop and how the tables plays if you know anything about that.
| Starvingwriter wrote: |
| ...no one is in the pot yet and 2-3 players have folded in front of you? |
Probably raising TT most of the time, 99 some of the time and still almost always limping 88.
| Starvingwriter wrote: |
| ...a player has called in front of you? |
This depends on position and the villain/table, but the same things apply about being more likely to raise TT than 99 and 99 than 88. In EP I probably limp all of them behind and in LP I probably raise both TT and 99 a decent percentage of the time.
| Starvingwriter wrote: |
| ...a player has raised in front of you? |
Call with all 3.
| Starvingwriter wrote: |
| ... a player has raised and been reraised in front of you? |
Fold all 3.
| Starvingwriter wrote: |
| A lot of the time I'll just call with them if there's a fair amount of calling or a small raise followed by a few calls. These are the times I'm looking to spike a set or check/fold. |
I think straight setmining with these hands is usually giving up on some value, as you'll often have the best hand unimproved on good flops.
| Starvingwriter wrote: |
| I'm more curious how people play it when it seems clear that a strong raise could get you in heads up, or at least without a horde of players in the pot. |
I don't know how you define "strong raise", but if I'm in a spot where my choices are between making a raise that commits a big chunk of my stack and calling, I'm almost always choosing the latter with these hands early in an SNG unless I'm already shortstacked.
| Starvingwriter wrote: |
| What's the best way to squeeze value out of these hands? Raising preflop feels dangerous, but I feel like I'm losing value when I just call and then check/fold to a flop with overcards. |
Yeah, these hands can be tricky, and especially so in early position. If you're not comfortable with them, limping all 3 in EP and early MP is perfectly fine. In all of the above spots where I'd limp, I'd also limp all lower pairs, with the difference that I'm much less likely to continue after the flop without a set. All of the above assumes the standard 1500 starting stacks btw.
Also, I'm moving this to the SNG forum because the answers to your questions can be very, very different in a cash game or a normal tournament. |
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Badlydrawnboy
Flush
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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If there has been a raise and a reraise I will certainly fold this hand.
If there has been only a standard raise, I call and watch the flop.
If everybody is limping/calling, I go along.
I'm especially interested in dry flops like 9-5-3 where somebody with AK or AQ might make a bet that is too large. |
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nilgiri
Royal Flush
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 980
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Playing Those Middle Pairs |
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| Starvingwriter wrote: |
| ...you're first to act? |
Usually raise all of them 3x. If the table is super loose PF, I'll limp in.
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| ...no one is in the pot yet and 2-3 players have folded in front of you? |
Same.
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| ...a player has called in front of you? |
Usually raise TT, limp 88 and 99. It really depends on the feel of the table, though. I might raise all of them or limp all of them.
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| ...a player has raised in front of you? |
Usually call. Sometimes I'll reraise, depending on reads. Sometimes fold if the raise is big and/or from a very tight player.
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| ... a player has raised and been reraised in front of you? |
Almost always fold.
| Quote: |
| A lot of the time I'll just call with them if there's a fair amount of calling or a small raise followed by a few calls. These are the times I'm looking to spike a set or check/fold. |
Yeah, that's fine.
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| I'm more curious how people play it when it seems clear that a strong raise could get you in heads up, or at least without a horde of players in the pot. |
Usually just call and reevaluate OTF. Often a strong raise PF means a good hand. If the raise is too big, I'll even fold.
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| What's the best way to squeeze value out of these hands? |
Don't think of it this way. If you are trying to get value from them, you will overplay them.
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| Raising preflop feels dangerous, but I feel like I'm losing value when I just call and then check/fold to a flop with overcards. |
Calling and check/folding is usually a good idea. Reraising can be a good idea if you are in LP and up against someone who is raising PF a bit too much. Calling a c-bet isn't always a bad idea, but don't go crazy. |
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