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Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 8151
Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| bdbranch wrote: |
| So what if it isn't KK? What if it's 75 or 82? |
That may not be the best example since we'll probably want to fold them. If we would want to play them though, a big committing raise isn't exactly great. That goes for a lot of more reasonable hands as well, which was my point. Even if a big raise would be the best play with specifically KK, which I don't think it is, we still have to take into account how good that type of raise is with the other hands we want to play in this situation. |
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jameric4
Two Pair
Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: |
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This was a 180 man tourney situation. Not on the bubble yet. About 50 players remaining and pays to 18.
I can see how some would think this post doesn't make any sense if it was on bubble or cash game, but when it happened I wonderred if it should be played differently in ANY situation.
I couldn't believe the callers pre flop. This was on the high side for me for open betting but I play very few hands utg 9-10 table (will fold 8/8, AJ and lower) so I open with 3.5 - 5 BB.
I guess my whole point was, does it make sense to push, knowing you are almost surely up against an A and only have 2 K outs OR just accept you are beat and save the 20 - 25 BB remaining for a better place. |
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bdbranch
Banned
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 503
Location: At home wdyt. Btw. I'm not opinionated all the time, umm can you be opinionated when you're asleep
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Once the ace came you had lost the hand. The fact that you were shortstacked encouraged callers (don't ask me about the logic of that). Of course in cash games I wouldn't be so shortstacked however personnally I wouldn't make any major changes in most situations other than say final table, 3 allins with bigger stacks then you (and yes I've had several similar situations (all in live games)). |
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bdbranch
Banned
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 503
Location: At home wdyt. Btw. I'm not opinionated all the time, umm can you be opinionated when you're asleep
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Riddim wrote: |
| bdbranch wrote: |
| So what if it isn't KK? What if it's 75 or 82? |
That may not be the best example since we'll probably want to fold them. If we would want to play them though, a big committing raise isn't exactly great. That goes for a lot of more reasonable hands as well, which was my point. Even if a big raise would be the best play with specifically KK, which I don't think it is, we still have to take into account how good that type of raise is with the other hands we want to play in this situation. |
For some reason people like to double up shortstacked people. I don't understand the logic of calling a heavy raise or allin by a shortstack player but it's somthing that people do. Few hands will scare KK and in my opinion if people want to put their chips in against it, I say go ahead.
depending on how shortstacked I am, I'd do it with AT (shorter stacked then this example thou) and that's absolutely not something I'd ever do in normal situations.
Btw. I believe that you play to win. Slow shortstacked deaths don't cut it for me. |
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Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 8151
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| bdbranch wrote: |
For some reason people like to double up shortstacked people. I don't understand the logic of calling a heavy raise or allin by a shortstack player but it's somthing that people do. Few hands will scare KK and in my opinion if people want to put their chips in against it, I say go ahead.
depending on how shortstacked I am, I'd do it with AT (shorter stacked then this example thou) and that's absolutely not something I'd ever do in normal situations.
Btw. I believe that you play to win. Slow shortstacked deaths don't cut it for me. |
I know they like to double up shortstacks, I just want to make it easier for them to do so. By making a smaller raise it's much easier for them to decide to see a flop and then double us up when they hit somehow. There's also, once again, the thing about other hands. While our UTG range will tend to be strong, there will still be hands that we want to raise and then fold to a 3-bet. Raising smaller makes that cheaper and since stacks are so short we can still get it in very easily postflop with the top of our range and even encourage others to double us up with worse hands more often. |
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