Online Poker Forum at Full Tilt Poker

mathman1115 · Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: the "deep" factor

In Full Tilt's latest update, the "deep" NL tables now have the same blind levels as the regular NL tables. Before this, i was playing .25/.50 ($50 max buyin) and i was buying in for the max. Should i consider playing the .10/.25 deep tables where i can still buyin for $50? Here are the pros and cons as i see it:

PROS

1. Blinds are smaller, more opportunities to limp without bleeding my stack.
2. The play may generally be weaker since it is technically a lower level.
3. I can take advantage of smaller stacks (assuming i know how to do that lol) while still being able to tangle with full stacks. In other words, there will be a wide range of buyins on the table
4. Pot sizes can be controlled more with smaller blinds. In other words, i can fire more than one bullet without pot committing myself to the hand.

CONS

1. Players tend to play tighter when deeper, so i may not get paid off as much.
2. I cannot win as much money from the weaker players who do buy in short.
3. Its much harder to find a "deep" table than a standard one.

I realize some of my pros contradict my cons, so i guess i'm just looking for some opinions here. I am rolled to play a .25//50 deep table ($100 buyin) as well, so that is also an option. What would be my best method of attack?

FWIW, i've only played 18K hands at the .25/.50 level buying in max $50. I am currently winning 1.63 BB/100 hands overall after being down about 8 buyins when i first moved to this level. Just looking for some ways to increase my winrate.

Riddim · Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 6:30 pm Post subject:

First off I'd recommend working on your game before anything else if you want to improve your winrate and think that 1.6 BB/100 is fairly close to accurate. There's bound to be some fairly simple adjustments left to make that will bump that number up quite a bit. As for playing the deep tables, I'd suggest getting your feet wet at the lower of the two stakes you're talking about first if you're uncomfortable playing deep, and then moving back up when you feel more comfortable.

My guess is that if the games play similarly your $/hour will be higher in the 100BB game than in a 200BB game with the same max buy-in. With the exception of the really big pots you'll be playing for more money at the table with higher blinds. This probably depends a bit on how you play though. If you win most of your money by making big hands and getting stacks in vs. bad player, then you'll have more opportunities to do it at the deeper tables. If you win a lot of small pots on the other hand, the blinds being half as low will basically cut the size of those pots in half.

I'm not sure I understand your comment about being able to limp more without bleeding off your stack btw. Do you mean that you can limp a few more hands because of higher implied odds, or are you talking about something else? If it's the former I agree, although I'm not a huge fan of limping and actually think you should be raising quite a few more speculative hands in position with deep stacks. If it's the latter on the other hand, I'm pretty sure I disagree with whatever you mean.

I'll go over the other points briefly as well, since I can't really comment on them as a group.

drtre1987 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1765

I don't think many people here have any experience at deep stacked FR, so I don't know how much good advice you'll get. But I'll give it a shot anyway.

Don't limp more because your stack is deeper. Still base your decisions on EV. This also ties in with don't make super loose calls hoping to get paid off huge just because the stacks are super deep. Remember that in order to have your implied odds justified, you have to get paid off when you win. If someone's range is really loose, do not try to justify your calls with getting to stack them when you hit. If their range is loose then you often hit and only win the pot or maybe win a value bet, not their whole stack. In that case, your call is -EV in the long run. Adjust your implied odds to how much you think you will win when you hit.

Basically, make sure you understand deep stack play if you are going to try it. If you make the wrong adjustments, then it is going to hurt you. I'd recommend just buying into 50NL and playing with 100bb stacks. Also, I'm not sure who the people are that are buying in deep. If they are just the deep stack regulars, then it might be best to buy in with 100bb since they are probably +EV against you deep, but either even or -EV against you 100bb deep. But if you find that donks and fish are also buying in deep, then go ahead and buy in deep.

HuJwang · Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject:

Actually in my experience, the deep tables played looser when they were at the weird blinds (.4/.8 or whatever). I'm not sure how moving them to the regular blind levels changes this, but I found it easier to be paid off. Of course you have to be able to play better as well.

However, 1.6BB/100 is a pretty small winrate and I think you might be better off just trying to improve your 100BB game first rather than playing deeper.

DrAndrian · Four of a Kind Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 313

I'm relatively new to the deep stack game, but what I noticed was that at the deep tables, the "short stack" has to buy-in higher than at a regular table. So hopefully there will be less all-in shoves and squeeze plays preflop.

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