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mathman1115 · Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:53 pm Post subject: completing when last to act

Here is a play i make often in stud that i think works well. Often i'll start with a high wired pair or split pair and notice that i am to the right of the bring in. It goes all around the table with about 5 or 6 people calling the bring in, so I just call the bring in too instead of completing. Here is why:

1. I hide the strength of my hand
2. I won't get anyone to fold at that point
3. I build the pot for draws if i complete
4. If i pair my door card or hit trips on 4th street, i make the full bet allowing players to think i want them all to fold, when i really want them to call or raise.
5. Betting or raising 4th street even if i don't improve confuses players.

Now, i know i will get drawn out sometimes, but usually i would get drawn out anyway if my opponent started with a decent draw. What are your thoughts on this play? Is it common?

flafishy · Three of a Kind Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 77

I'd probably go ahead and raise in this situation to get rid of the bringin and possibly one of the limpers who might go away if he was trying to see fourth street cheaply with a marginal draw.

I think you really have to do anything you can here to narrow the field, even if it only knocks out one of four players.

A raise here also serves to slow down fourth-street betting and possibly gives you a free card. Or helps scare away someone if you throw out another bet on fourth street.

KGBlovesOreos · Moderator Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 5318 Location: VA

i believe that just calling the bring in bet is a common tactic when trying to conceal the strength of your hand... i would only recommend it for anything with JJ or better though... using the maneuver will allow for people to outdraw you once in a while, but more often than not, you will throw off your opponents later on in the hand when you improve... something like 10-10 is just not strong enough to softplay, so i would recommend completing the bet w/ anything weaker than 10-10 so that you give yourself the chance to win with this hand early on...

guitarguy178 · Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject:

Bases on the 5 callers, I assume we are talking about low limit stud here. In my experience, once you have 5 players call the bring in, a raise in late position isn't going to scare anyone away, except maybe the original bring in. With big pairs you are not that big of a favorite to the drawing hands with that many callers. The idea behind large pairs is to win the pot early 3rd, 4th, or 5th street. With this many people in the pot nearly everyone is getting decent odds to catch their hands. Just calling the raise is ok, as long as you jam the pot on the early streets while you are still ahead. If by 5th street, you haven't improved, or given yourself a really good draw, then it's time to slow down and maybe pass to a raise.

You want as many players in the pot with good drawing hands such as 9, 10, J, Q. or 4 to a flush with less than 2 dead cards of your suit.

You want as few players in the pot with high pairs.

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