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NilesMonkey · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:40 am Post subject: Hand Help

I'll give you a walkthrough of the hand, along with some of my thought process as it goes:

Full Tilt Poker Game #4901283290: Table Tesara Vista - $0.25/$0.50 - Limit Hold'em - 1:05:53 ET - 2008/01/18
Seat 1: Really112 ($10.50)
Seat 2: ggo1ggo1 ($2.25)
Seat 3: Des Brodine ($18.20)
Seat 4: christina MN ($15.10)
Seat 5: chasiubao ($20)
Seat 6: chekhov16 ($2.60), is sitting out
Seat 7: NilesMonkey ($6.50)
Seat 8: zzpot420 ($27.05)
Seat 9: big_foot_md ($27.25)
zzpot420 posts the small blind of $0.10
big_foot_md posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NilesMonkey [Qh Qd]

*** Yay! Finally A hand! Looking to raise when it comes around to me...

Really112 raises to $0.50

Uh oh. Really112 hadn't played many hands during the time I was at the table. And he only raised once, in late position with pocket kings. I figured him for some combo of aces and/or kings.

ggo1ggo1 folds
Des Brodine folds
christina MN calls $0.50
chasiubao calls $0.50
NilesMonkey calls $0.50

This is where I slipped up, most likely. I considered raising, but the two C's were both calling stations. I didn't think another raise from me would push them out... even if the raiser ended up pumping it again. I am also not sure if I am ahead or behind Really112 at the moment. Rather than give him a chance to raise it again, I just called.

zzpot420 folds
big_foot_md calls $0.25
*** FLOP *** [6c 7h 6h]
big_foot_md checks
Really112 bets $0.25
christina MN folds
chasiubao calls $0.25
NilesMonkey calls $0.25

Still not sure where I am in this hand. I don't know if C has a 6, or if Really112 still has me in pocket. I'm either ahead here, or way behind. This call was also probably a mistake.

big_foot_md calls $0.25
*** TURN *** [6c 7h 6h] [9d]
big_foot_md checks
Really112 checks
chasiubao checks
NilesMonkey bets $0.50

Hmmm, puzzling. With these two checks, my confidence goes up. Perhaps Really112 only has an ace, or was only on a steal? Even I'm not stupid enough to miss a bet here.

big_foot_md calls $0.50
Really112 folds
chasiubao calls $0.50
*** RIVER *** [6c 7h 6h 9d] [Td]
big_foot_md checks
chasiubao bets $0.50

Crap.

NilesMonkey calls $0.50

Even though I know C's got the straight (and it's not even second guessing... I KNEW C had it), I have to take a look.

big_foot_md folds
*** SHOW DOWN ***
chasiubao shows [9s 8s] a straight, Ten high
NilesMonkey mucks
chasiubao wins the pot ($5.80) with a straight, Ten high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $6.10 | Rake $0.30
Board: [6c 7h 6h 9d Td]
Seat 1: Really112 folded on the Turn
Seat 2: ggo1ggo1 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Des Brodine didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: christina MN folded on the Flop
Seat 5: chasiubao showed [9s 8s] and won ($5.80) with a straight, Ten high
Seat 6: chekhov16 is sitting out
Seat 7: NilesMonkey (button) mucked [Qh Qd] - two pair, Queens and Sixes
Seat 8: zzpot420 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: big_foot_md (big blind) folded on the River

Am I right about where I blew this one? Or did I just fall victim to a bad cold caller who flopped good odds?

Please be brutally honest.

POKERLECTRIC · High Card Joined: 05 Oct 2007 Posts: 3

hmmm... it would seem to me that really112 had at least an ace or two paint cards and folded when he didnt pair up by the turn - the two sixes out there were scary as it stood, then the 9 on the turn made the straight possible.

Even if really112 had you covered with K,K or A,A he saw the writing on the wall and gave them up... something you probably should have considered after the turn...

hard, I know... but, like Jennifer Harman says on the commercial... when you're beat, you're beat.

Confused

fire_eyes_2k · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:52 am Post subject:

Well its difficult to say you f**ked it up preflop, as 3betting wouldnt have had any effect on the end result as the villain would still have had odds to chase all the way to the river.

But in general, you should reraise preflop, raise the flop (and reraise to a cap), It's highly unlikely anyone has a 6 here, what sort of hands call 2 bets cold that have a 6 in them? 66, 77 also beats you, 67s or 56s is a maybe, but I feel unlikely) I'm expecting to be up against 2 overcards and/or an overpair most of the time here.

Bet on the turn is fine, and correct.

River is a tough one. You're getting 11-1 on a call here, which I'd say is good for a call, theres plenty of hands that could have gotten this far which you're ahead of, including A9, AT, JJ, AK, AQ, AJ, A7, even underpairs.

griffinlord · Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject:

If I'm reading the HH correctly you are on the button:

To me that is an auto raise preflop. There are only a few hands that beat you and the calling stations are unlikely to have any of them. If Really caps it so be it. If you get a good flop the preflop 4-bet is going to look like genius.

In limit you aren't always raising preflop to eliminate opponents, you sometimes raise to build a pot. It isn't the in vogue approach these days, but if folks want to bring in marginal hands for 3-4 bets, why would you want to let them in for 2?

With 3 opponents your preflop queens win somewhere in the neighborhood of 50% of the time by the river. By calling you have an EV of +2SB. If you raise and really repops and the Cs call you have an EV of +4SB.

The extra players do increase your variance and it can be a little hard on the stomach, especially in a hand like this where 4-betting preflop would have resulted in a really big pot on the river.

I agree with fire-eyes, you want to raise the flop and betting the turn was automatic.

The river call sucks but has to be made.

Shanghai73 · High Card Joined: 06 Feb 2008 Posts: 4

You can bet the guy who calls a raise and re-raise preflop with suited connectors will follow it to the river if he connects with anything. Thats been my experience anyway.

Honest_Rob · Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject:

Raise preflop, raise the flop, bet/raise the turn, call the river. You shouldn't play your big pairs so passive. Always raise them preflop. Never fold that river. Too much in the pot to make a hero fold at that point.

Checkrazed · High Card Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 4

You mentioned more than once that you weren't sure where you stood in the hand. There are two reasons for this. The first is because you didn't reraise pre-flop; this is especially bad if you're on the button, because you probably have to throw your hand away if the board comes A or K and there's any bet. Second is because you let the flop go by without obtaining any information. You could've easily been facing a continuation bet with some loose small pair or draw calls. Your raise for a small bet helps you determine where you are in the hand.

As it turned out, you never would've forced a calling station off of flopping up and down and turning top pair, but that's irrelevant to what your play should be. In limit poker you're always going to be paying off the overpair when the board comes low, barring an incredible read.

sixandfour · Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:03 am Post subject: Re: Hand Help

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