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Honest_Rob
Postmaster General
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 5661
Location: trying to get back to even
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 Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject: Critique |
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Full Tilt Poker Game #4509633557: $5 + $0.50 Tournament (33617672), Table 7 - 50/100 Ante 10 - Limit Razz - 12:53:18 ET - 2007/12/15
Seat 1: dabeerz71 (1,905)
Seat 2: play4fund (1,540)
Seat 3: Honest_Rob (2,380)
Seat 4: El_Pacino87 (790)
Seat 5: IlkkaK (1,130)
Seat 6: BTK30MRR (1,390)
Seat 7: Sira21 (1,385)
Seat 8: blackcoral (1,480)
dabeerz71 antes 10
play4fund antes 10
Honest_Rob antes 10
El_Pacino87 antes 10
IlkkaK antes 10
BTK30MRR antes 10
Sira21 antes 10
blackcoral antes 10
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to dabeerz71 [Ah]
Dealt to play4fund [8d]
Dealt to Honest_Rob [2c 7s] [Ac]
Dealt to El_Pacino87 [9s]
Dealt to IlkkaK [6s]
Dealt to BTK30MRR [Jc]
Dealt to Sira21 [9c]
Dealt to blackcoral [Qh]
blackcoral is high with [Qh]
blackcoral brings in for 15
dabeerz71 completes it to 50
play4fund folds
Honest_Rob calls 50
El_Pacino87 folds
IlkkaK folds
BTK30MRR folds
Sira21 folds
blackcoral folds
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to dabeerz71 [Ah] [As]
Dealt to Honest_Rob [2c 7s Ac] [8c]
Honest_Rob bets 50
dabeerz71 raises to 100
Honest_Rob raises to 150
dabeerz71 raises to 200
Honest_Rob calls 50
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to dabeerz71 [Ah As] [9h]
Dealt to Honest_Rob [2c 7s Ac 8c] [Th]
Honest_Rob bets 100
dabeerz71 raises to 200
Honest_Rob calls 100
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to dabeerz71 [Ah As 9h] [3d]
Dealt to Honest_Rob [2c 7s Ac 8c Th] [Qc]
Honest_Rob checks
dabeerz71 bets 100
Honest_Rob calls 100
*** 7TH STREET ***
Dealt to Honest_Rob [2c 7s Ac 8c Th Qc] [Tc]
Honest_Rob checks
dabeerz71 bets 100
Honest_Rob calls 100
*** SHOW DOWN *** |
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alex j beeson
Royal Flush
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 834
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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Well, by him completing on the 3rd he is saying he has a good hand.
He pairs on the 4th while your hand improves. Your bet is met with a re-raise.
On the 5th he gets a 9 but since your snag a 10 he does not seem too worried and keeps on raising.
On the 6th he gets a 3. Now right here i bet ya he just paired his 3's! He has one in the hole. He is now sitting on a for sure 9 high and it could get worse, bad thing for you, your Q, had you completed your 8high you would have won for sure and could raise and re-raise.
7th your stuck with a 10 high. he has a 9 high, maybe worse. I bet you won the pot cause he got a anther pair or another brick on the 7th.
So what happened? His betting was suspicious a little bit, like just trying to represent strength when no strength was pressent. If you won he thinks your a donk! hahaha, but in essence since you called you have some type of read on him, like he goes in and bluffs a bit maybe. |
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Zophar
Moderator
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 3506
Location: East Coast
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| alex j beeson wrote: |
Well, by him completing on the 3rd he is saying he has a good hand.
He pairs on the 4th while your hand improves. Your bet is met with a re-raise.
On the 5th he gets a 9 but since your snag a 10 he does not seem too worried and keeps on raising.
On the 6th he gets a 3. Now right here i bet ya he just paired his 3's! He has one in the hole. He is now sitting on a for sure 9 high and it could get worse, bad thing for you, your Q, had you completed your 8high you would have won for sure and could raise and re-raise.
7th your stuck with a 10 high. he has a 9 high, maybe worse. I bet you won the pot cause he got a anther pair or another brick on the 7th.
So what happened? His betting was suspicious a little bit, like just trying to represent strength when no strength was pressent. If you won he thinks your a donk! hahaha, but in essence since you called you have some type of read on him, like he goes in and bluffs a bit maybe. |
What are you actually trying to say? It comes across as the somewhat obvious play by play of his hand.
As far as how it played, the only thing I would've done differently is cap 4th and 5th street. On 4th you're a slight favorite, probably about 55/45 and on 5th you're more than a 65/35 fav.
Any respect for his game is lost on his 4th and 5th street play. His raise on 4th is senseless. With your ace showing it's obvious that you didn't miss a major out and for his play t be correct, you'd have had to have paired your 8, which is less likely as well, seeing as 1 was already dead.
His raise on 5th is just stupid. He's raising four to a 9 against your likely four to an 8. Here he needs to either hit twice to your once. Or you need to brick both 6th and 7th and him hit once. Either way, you are an obvious favorite.
I like your play on 6th, given it's a tourney situation. Because he's seemingly caught up a bit(on his board), I think a cautious approach is correct when playing a marginal favorite. If it were cash, I'm probably raising 6th as well. By this point he's likely slowing down if he paired his 3. With replaceable chips it's a much easier play to make.
*I have seen some Razz Tourney players say fold on 3rd in this situation! It's a much different style of play that I don't care as much for because it's low in action. The arguement is made on whether to work on small pots only, picking up the antes and bring in, confrontations w/shortstacks only, etc., as opposed to getting into big pot battles, starting on 3rd, with at most a slight favorite hand. |
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alex j beeson
Royal Flush
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 834
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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Opps, this is what I was trying to say, sorry:
"I bet you won the pot cause he got a anther pair or another brick on the 7th"
Yes capping on the 4th would be OK but with the guy raising with AA showing you have to assume he has (23)AA, technically rob is in the lead but not by much and no way of knowing what the draws will be like (they ended up terrible).
The 5th when the guy gets a 9 is when you would start putting real pressure on him and cap.
The 3 you assume he pairs, but with the Q showing you would now have to stay in maybe but limit the amount of chips put at risk because there are too many unknowns, if the guy did not pair his 3's then your in real trouble.
Overall played as well as could be and i bet he (rob) won.
And I agree, dont fold on the 3rd. No way no how, gotta see to the 5th with that starting hand, By the 5th you can see the guy has little or no chance of actually having the wheel. On the 6th you see that the guy has a remote chance to draw the wheel (if he did not pair his 3) |
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Big Slick x13x
Forum Icon
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 4122
Location: ROK
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I may raise 3rd street here depending on the opponent, other then that, cap 5th and nice hand. |
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Honest_Rob
Postmaster General
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 5661
Location: trying to get back to even
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:36 am Post subject: |
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Here's the rest of the hand if anyone's interested. Thanks for the input.
...and damn Z fold on 3rd? haha That's so insane it might just work.
Full Tilt Poker Game #4509633557: $5 + $0.50 Tournament (33617672), Table 7 - 50/100 Ante 10 - Limit Razz - 12:53:18 ET - 2007/12/15
Seat 1: dabeerz71 (1,905)
Seat 2: play4fund (1,540)
Seat 3: Honest_Rob (2,380)
Seat 4: El_Pacino87 (790)
Seat 5: IlkkaK (1,130)
Seat 6: BTK30MRR (1,390)
Seat 7: Sira21 (1,385)
Seat 8: blackcoral (1,480)
dabeerz71 antes 10
play4fund antes 10
Honest_Rob antes 10
El_Pacino87 antes 10
IlkkaK antes 10
BTK30MRR antes 10
Sira21 antes 10
blackcoral antes 10
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to dabeerz71 [Ah]
Dealt to play4fund [8d]
Dealt to Honest_Rob [2c 7s] [Ac]
Dealt to El_Pacino87 [9s]
Dealt to IlkkaK [6s]
Dealt to BTK30MRR [Jc]
Dealt to Sira21 [9c]
Dealt to blackcoral [Qh]
blackcoral is high with [Qh]
blackcoral brings in for 15
dabeerz71 completes it to 50
play4fund folds
Honest_Rob calls 50
El_Pacino87 folds
IlkkaK folds
BTK30MRR folds
Sira21 folds
blackcoral folds
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to dabeerz71 [Ah] [As]
Dealt to Honest_Rob [2c 7s Ac] [8c]
Honest_Rob bets 50
dabeerz71 raises to 100
Honest_Rob raises to 150
dabeerz71 raises to 200
Honest_Rob calls 50
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to dabeerz71 [Ah As] [9h]
Dealt to Honest_Rob [2c 7s Ac 8c] [Th]
Honest_Rob bets 100
dabeerz71 raises to 200
Honest_Rob calls 100
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to dabeerz71 [Ah As 9h] [3d]
Dealt to Honest_Rob [2c 7s Ac 8c Th] [Qc]
Honest_Rob checks
dabeerz71 bets 100
Honest_Rob calls 100
*** 7TH STREET ***
Dealt to Honest_Rob [2c 7s Ac 8c Th Qc] [Tc]
Honest_Rob checks
dabeerz71 bets 100
Honest_Rob calls 100
*** SHOW DOWN ***
dabeerz71 shows [Kh 6h Ah As 9h 3d 4h] 9,6,4,3,A
Honest_Rob mucks
dabeerz71 wins the pot (1,395) with 9,6,4,3,A
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1,395 | Rake 0
Seat 1: dabeerz71 showed [Kh 6h Ah As 9h 3d 4h] and won (1,395) with 9,6,4,3,A
Seat 2: play4fund folded on 3rd St.
Seat 3: Honest_Rob mucked [Tc 7s Ac 8c Th Qc 2c] - T,8,7,2,A
Seat 4: El_Pacino87 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 5: IlkkaK folded on 3rd St.
Seat 6: BTK30MRR folded on 3rd St.
Seat 7: Sira21 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 8: blackcoral folded on 3rd St. |
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nero75
Banned
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| You should have reraised when he was showing aa9 and u had a8t. He was at best drawing to a 9 and u were drawing to an 8. You simply didn't hit anything and you had to call on 7th. Not to be a know it all... but everything written above seems to be a bunch of fluff. I didn't read everything but one thing that stuck in my mind was " He raised on 4th showing he had a good hand." Whatever that means. You had him beat on mostly every street. There was nothing you could do, you just didn't hit. The only move you made wrong there was not reraising on 5th. |
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renegades8
Forum Fish
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 3388
Location: spewing @ 25NL
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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Only thing I might have done differently is raise on 3rd. But I'd just call with shorter stacks/bigger blinds.
Other than that, played it fine IMO, just got unlucky by bricking on 5th/6th/7th. |
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