| Author |
Message |
jaxup1984
High Card
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 1
|
 Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:08 am Post subject: don't be silly |
 |
|
| The truth is playing 1/2 and making a living is possible.. regardless of what ppl. here say... Yes it is about br management and it will be a grind until you can move up.. You however will have to play extremely well.. do not gamble.. you cannot afford to get your money in when you are only a 3 - 2 favorite... You have to get it in better... most ppl. in my opinion gamble way to much to ever take the game seriously.. You have to fold KJ - KQ in even if a donk is play A4 you still can't afford that gamble. I started out with a $5 tourney. I eventually turned that $5 into $1400 in less than a week.. went nuts and lost it all in 2 days (poor bankroll management and no discipline) Point is i've went on runs three times now pushing 50 bux or so into a few thousand in a couple of weeks. Then I won the 50/50 for 10k plus giving my br a big boost. but... do not underestimate the earning ability in this game... ppls view is skewed.. you don't have to believe me... But try thinking outside the box and see if your view changes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
fire_eyes_2k
The Burn Card
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 3179
Location: Old York
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:38 am Post subject: Re: don't be silly |
|
|
| jaxup1984 wrote: |
| The truth is playing 1/2 and making a living is possible.. regardless of what ppl. here say... Yes it is about br management and it will be a grind until you can move up.. You however will have to play extremely well.. do not gamble.. you cannot afford to get your money in when you are only a 3 - 2 favorite... You have to get it in better... most ppl. in my opinion gamble way to much to ever take the game seriously.. You have to fold KJ - KQ in even if a donk is play A4 you still can't afford that gamble. I started out with a $5 tourney. I eventually turned that $5 into $1400 in less than a week.. went nuts and lost it all in 2 days (poor bankroll management and no discipline) Point is i've went on runs three times now pushing 50 bux or so into a few thousand in a couple of weeks. Then I won the 50/50 for 10k plus giving my br a big boost. but... do not underestimate the earning ability in this game... ppls view is skewed.. you don't have to believe me... But try thinking outside the box and see if your view changes. |
Joke post. I think the only thing in there that's actually correct is where you say that you need to play well. (duhhh) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rockycatt
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 2399
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| fire_eyes_2k wrote: |
| MeCrazy wrote: |
| limit is like doing math all day....but if you really got the odds down, its not going to have the swings of NL |
Firstly, I don't think the swings thing is accurate, some suggest that swings are bigger in LHE than NLHE as people often have the odds to chase their draws: http://pokerforums.fulltiltpoker.com/viewtopic.php?t=34812
Second, I don't think LHE is anything like as mathematical as NLHE. When you get to 100NL or 200NL then implied odds become a huge factor, so the math there is often more necessary (and more complicated) than in LHE where you learn the correct odds to chase certain draws within your first 5000 hands. A lot of LHE at the mid-stakes is about knowing when your opponent has nothing, and check/raising (NOT floating) when you think you can get your opponent to fold.
But to play a given limit of LHE, you need a smaller bankroll that NLHE. I wouldnt play 1/2 NLHE 6max without $5k, but I'd be happy playing 1/2 LHE 6max with just $1k. That said, remember skill is still a factor and if your skill can't hack these games you will go busto whatever your bankroll. |
rockycatt wrote:
get my personal script off your signature = you did know that was a joke |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
icemaker109
High Card
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 9
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
in my own opinion i dont think that u could make a living off of low stakes in limit holdem!
especially online!
to me in my experiences in limit hold'em i have been drawn out on more than no limit!
so have that many loses and on low stakes is really helping your bank roll!
anyone else feel this way!? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dumwaldo
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 1596
Location: look to the stars
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
GOOD limit players have less swings.
GOOD limit players know better than to chase draws because odds.
GOOD limit players recognize players that never fold and plays them accordingly.
If you try to play limit games the way you play no limit games you will encounter big swings and frequently pay chasers the maximum value for their chasing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
griffinlord
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 2454
Location: The Great Plains of South Dakota
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="dumwaldo"]
| fire_eyes_2k wrote: |
GOOD limit players know better than to chase draws because odds.
|
Huh? If you have a nut flush draw and are getting 8-1 to chase are you claiming that the good limit player lays that down?
Especially at the micros limit is swingy because it is almost impossible to isolate another player. Pots go off 3-4 or more handed all the time. Mathematically the more players in the pot the more variance you'll experience. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fire_eyes_2k
The Burn Card
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 3179
Location: Old York
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dumwaldo wrote: |
GOOD limit players have less swings.
GOOD limit players know better than to chase draws because odds.
GOOD limit players recognize players that never fold and plays them accordingly.
If you try to play limit games the way you play no limit games you will encounter big swings and frequently pay chasers the maximum value for their chasing. |
I don't know whether I'm going to agree or disagree with you here waldo, primarily cos I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
But GOOD limit players will always chase if they feel they have the correct implied odds, (and at low limits, you usually do, esp. in position). I know NL is notorious for people chasing draws they have no right to, but in FLHE, its a different game, and you're missing SO much value if you fold a flush draw OTB on the flop/turn for a single bet getting 3:1. (and a host of other examples where chasing is the correct play.
I know that might sound like a donkish post, but a great percentage of the winnings in LHE come from playing draws correctly, and conversely folding hands that are no good, even with inviting odds. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dumwaldo
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 1596
Location: look to the stars
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| fire_eyes_2k wrote: |
I don't know whether I'm going to agree or disagree with you here waldo, primarily cos I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
But GOOD limit players will always chase if they feel they have the correct implied odds, (and at low limits, you usually do, esp. in position). I know NL is notorious for people chasing draws they have no right to, but in FLHE, its a different game, and you're missing SO much value if you fold a flush draw OTB on the flop/turn for a single bet getting 3:1. (and a host of other examples where chasing is the correct play.
I know that might sound like a donkish post, but a great percentage of the winnings in LHE come from playing draws correctly, and conversely folding hands that are no good, even with inviting odds. |
For starters I should point out that what you are describing is not a situation that is possible in a limit hold em' or Omaha game. If you have a draw that means the flop has already come and there is a minimum of 2.5 small bets already in the pot plus the one small bet from your opponent that you are being faced with for a total of 3.5 small bets. You are getting 3.5:1 on the flop. If it is checked then bet on the turn you are getting 2.25:1.
The point is you will almost always have drawing odds when playing fixed limit games. Think about it, 3.5:1 is the minimum odds you are going to get on the flop. So should you always call flop bets because such a wide range of hands will fill the approximately 22% chance required to call a bet here? What about pots with more than 2 players? You will be getting even better odds, so should you play even lesser hands when the pots multiway and the odds are so good?
The key to limit poker is understanding that EVERY bet you put into the pot is important. You can only win a small number of bets in any given hand so you do not want to find yourself losing big pots because you chased the odds and winning small pots when the odds happen to work out in your favor.
Am I folding a flush draw in a 4 way pot? Probably not if it is a 10 or better draw. Am I folding a flush draw in a heads up pot? Probably every time. It just doesn't pay to put my money in chasing when if I do win it is only going to be a small pot.
What I am trying to say here is if you play limit games well they have far smaller swings than no limit games. I do not play smaller than $1/$2 and I can not imagine there are to many good players playing at levels lower than $1/$2 but that should not stop you from making the effort to play well rather than just fall in with the herd that plays poorly. Nobody goes broke in poker because the competition plays poorly.
If it were not for fixed limit games I think I would have quit poker long ago. The swings of no limit are just to brutal. Playing $50 NL I would have days where I go down $200 to $250. Playing fixed limit $1/$2 all the way up to $5/$10 I rarely see a swing of more than $100 down in a single day. On the flip side, playing $50 NL I might see a $300 to $400 profit in a single day and playing the limit games I rarely see better than a $100 to $200 profit.
Over the long run I can manage to squeak out a profit from both styles but I find the fixed limit games provide a much smoother ride. I guess I am a better limit player than NL player as well because I am finding over the longer run the fixed limit might even be turning out to be better for me than NL. One thing I know for sure though, limit if much less swingy.
peace,
dumwaldo |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 6449
Location: Quitting smoking
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Your smaller swings seem to be largely based on how you play dumwaldo. If you have pokertracker, datamine some 6max limit games and take a look at the swings of the biggest winners at your stakes over a significant sample. Or just go to the limit forum on 2+2 and look for the variance threads. I think there are some interesting ones in one of their stickies. No-limit definitely seems to have become swingier lately though, and may even have passed limit. I read what seemed to be the start of something interesting on 2+2 regarding that, but there were no conclusions yet when I read the thread. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 5343
Location: Halifax, NS
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dumwaldo wrote: |
| Playing fixed limit $1/$2 all the way up to $5/$10 I rarely see a swing of more than $100 down in a single day. |
Huh? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jamjoe
High Card
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 2
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: Living |
|
|
8tabling you can probably get in about 500hands/hour @ 1bb/100 thats 5BB/hour. So $2/$4 would net you $20/hr which is pretty nice, especially for those of us in the UK who wont have to pay tax on that.
If you pick up a rakeback deal youd boost that by a fair amount as well.
$1/$2 wouldn't really get you anymore than minimum wage, but i dont think anyone in their right mind would want to grind 8hrs/day for minimum wage when you could find a job just slacking off all day having a laugh with co-workers  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Torlin
Pair
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 23
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| i'm pretty sure you can make more than 5bb and hour playing 8 tables if you are ANY good. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jamjoe
High Card
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 2
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:09 pm Post subject: bb/100 |
|
|
| True, but 1BB/100 is an (granted a conservative) accepted level of bb/100. Yes yes we know good players can get 2-4bb/100 at 2/4 over 100K+hands but i like to be a little pessimistic when it comes to calculating estimated profits |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fire_eyes_2k
The Burn Card
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 3179
Location: Old York
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Torlin wrote: |
| i'm pretty sure you can make more than 5bb and hour playing 8 tables if you are ANY good. |
Well 1BB/100 is a reasonable estimate for 8-tabling. I doubt you could 8-table at more than 3BB/100 at FR, and maybe 4BB/100 at shorthanded games. But thats for really strong players, and after a few hours straight playing, your quality of play and thus winrate will drop like a stone.
And $20/hr to live in the UK is silly. You won't have to pay tax, but you also won't get a pension. How are you going to save for that, and pay a mortgage. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 6449
Location: Quitting smoking
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| It's not just about the BB/100, it's about the hands/hour. 500 seems way too low to me. I think my average at 6max NL is around 360, and I only 4-table. Plus you even get a few more hands/hour at limit IIRC. So let's say we're getting in 700 hands/hour to be conservative, but increase our BB/100 to 1.2. Now we're all of a sudden making $33.6/hour, which is obv a huge improvement over $20/hour. I'd say it's definitely doable as long as you've got the basic poker skills+stamina and are willing to put in the hours. About the pension/mortgage, who's said anything about playing 2/4 for a living forever? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
