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fammy · Pair Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 21

Hello all,

Man the advice everyone gave about getting PT is really helpful. I am finding very large holes in my game that I never would have seen.

One potentially major issue (maybe) is blind play.

I have about 3K hands in the database (a good start) and it is showing that I am playing a good / solid tight agressive game with a V$IP of about 16% and an AF of 1.91. When I look at the blind numbers, I see that I am only keeping about 50% of my investment from the BB and 33% of my investment from the SB. My folded SB to steal is 74% and BB to steal is 93%, but when I look at the actual hands, a large portion of them are junk.

Is this an "acceptable" amount of mucking these hands? I don't have enough info on other players yet to be able to see who is "stealing", but playing low / micro limits, I do believe that even if I reraise to "punish" I am going to at least get called, and there is a decent chance I am going to lose even more.

Any input on this would be appreciated.

Thanks.

High blood sugar gets you in 20 years, low blood sugars get you today.

Fammy

asw63 · Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:48 am Post subject:

I dont use PT or any other tracking SW for that matter, so your numbers dont mean much to me.
I do know that 3k in your tracker isnt enough to give you a good read on anything tho (at least thats what I've read here from ppl that use them)

To answer your question tho
if you have junk in the BB and someone is "stealing" it .... let it go.... you have junk you have the min bet in why waste more on that 37 os. even if they are stealing, they probably have you beat.
money saved is as good as money won.
Just remember, when youre in the blinds and the "thief" tries to strike again and you DO have a hand..... MAKE HIM PAY

Thats just MHO.... hope it helps

deadmoney314 · Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:52 am Post subject: Taxes

Just like the rake, the blinds eat away at your profit, and how you defend yourself in a weak position with weak cards can be the difference between winning and losing. Its not always correct to fold to a steal in this position but it is also very wrong to always fold to a steal. PT has a nice feature where it shows you the amount of money that you have won in the blinds MINUS the post of the big blind itself. If you are in the green on that number, it means you are doing a fairly decent job of defending your blind.
I would recommend looking at a range of hands to defend your blind with, because up against a single raise, at minimum you are getting 3 to 1 on your money and unless you believe the raiser has a pocket pair or somehow has you dominated (like 88 vs 82o). Once you find this range, add hands or subtract hands from this list until you eventually get a comfortable level. If you want to go even further, create a list of hands that you will call with against an aggressive stealer, and one for a tightwad. Imo, I would re-raise with any pocket pair if it will be heads up and bet through or at least see the showdown. Also, sometimes its good against someone who ALWAYS steals your blind to let them steal it a few times if you have mediocre holdings, then on the 3rd or 4th round fire back at them hard through pre-flop, flop and turn, or checkraise the flop and bet turn. Even if they hit 2nd pair a lot of time because you folded so easily the first few times it will send chills down their spine and get them to exit while you take the pot down with 72o.
You will begin to see, once you start seeing some of these showdowns, that the cutoff or the button will frequently raise with ace rag or king high weaker hands and bet position the whole way (or simply bet the fact that you haven't made a hand). In a nine-handed game this is of course, a dangerous situation as if it is folded to a stealing position (cutoff or button) then I do think some "bunching" occurs and it is slightly more possible that a stealer acutally has cards. This is again why you need to create a solid list ahead of time (start tight) that you will defend against. And remember, if it is 3 bet to you or capped while you are in the blind, there is no harm in not calling a raise and a re-raise with AJo, sometimes you have to let hands go and let the others get raked.
In addition to defending against steals, sometimes you are getting amazing pot odds preflop to see the flop even with bad position and crap cards. Example, UTG raises, and there are 4 callers, you have 57o in the BB. Even if someone has 77 you are "priced in" at this point and of course you have to play carefully and will fold most flops (most of the time you are not dominated like this anyway). Keep in mind you only have to get a lucky flop 1 in 11 times in these situations so all those times you call, check flop, fold are not in vain. This advice is a little generalized because sometimes the complexion of your opponents will change your strategy 180 degrees but it is pretty solid for most games you should be sitting at.

Good luck and keep grinding it out.

Daveyboy · High Card Joined: 06 Aug 2005 Posts: 17

Something that works well for me, ( not that I'm a pro or anything) is if the pot is raised and you are the big blind call only hands you would play in late position for 1 bet. If you are in small blind only call with a hand you would call with in early or middle position.

Pokit2s · Message Board Junkie Joined: 22 Jun 2005 Posts: 1261

I'm not going to add too much to the already given advice, as I agree with all of it (and its a hell of a lot to read). One thing I have changed in my blinds game is doing more re-raising if I am holding a solid hand. This is more for making money as supposed to improving your PT Blind Steal stats. If you are just calling out of the blinds when you hold something like AT, AJ, or KQ, dont forget that depending on what kind of player is raising and what position he is in, you have a good chance of holding the best hand. Go ahead and re-raise, take control of the hand, and get money in when you are at least 65% sure you have the best hand. Sure you will be dominated sometimes, but you would have been dominated if you just called too, so you might as well juice up the pot seeing as you will only be dominated a small % of the time.

Another one of my problems from the blinds was calling a raise with anything suited. I've figured out that even if there is only one raise, I am still not getting great odds to call with a J2 of spades if there havent been a lot of callers. (Unless of course a loose/agressive player is making a move on you from late position or the button) Suited hands really lose their value in heads up pots.

Hope this helps!

michaellewis · Flush Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 126

I'm not particularly sure about the exact figures but I'd say those look good. I'm not a big fan of protecting my blind with less than marginal hands, Most of the time I can't wait to put my cards in the muck fast enough!

I think one of the weakest parts in my game is playing KQ UTG/UTG+2. I hate to steal your thread but I read a really good article about mid and gun play with these types of hands and how they sometimes aren't that profitable.

EDIT: However in lower limits sometimes I feel compelled that I have to raise these hands everytime. Suggestions?

deadmoney314 · Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 12:01 pm Post subject: KQ in EP

KQ in EP is a risky little situation and you will have to use a lot of feel and be sharp with your play if you want to do it. Personally, I put the pressure on if I am in EP and I am the first one in the pot so I raise. There is more justification for a fold if your table image is shot because you have been losing pots and people will not fear you. If you are UTG+1 or 2 and someone calls or raises in front of you there are the obvious reasons for a fold and although you can be fifty fifty--a lot of the time you are dominated which can be bad especially if you kind of hit the flop.
Depending on your opponents coming in on your right though, if they are loose players you may want to offer resistance with a hand like this UTG+1,2. So make your decisions based on table complextion, table image, and be aware that a raise can happen behind you. A lot of time you can still be justified to be in the pot as KQ vs AQ is still a 3 to 1 situation but your position deficit makes it very very difficult to know where you are at if the raiser has position on you the rest of the rounds. Basically, not a good time to get into a raising war pre-flop.
If it is you that raised, or if you called a raise, or limped behind an UTG limper and the people behind you are causing friction by re-raising etc., try to see the flop at least if it is just one more bet to call, but at this point plan on continuing with the hand carefully. If j-10 comes on the flop, accept right away that you need the straight to win and DO be afraid if the board pairs on your made straight (you will showdown but not cap the river). In these situations I like checking the flop whether you hit or not--imho betting for information is a moot point since you already got what you needed preflop, it is better to see which person in the pot now "claims" the flop by betting or check raising and lets you read their hand a little better.
If you do have justification for going on with your hand, be aggressive because people will give you more respect from EP and it allows you to represent more hands if your opponents are too loose or too timid allowing you to steal more. You can even get loose players with j2s to fold on the turn with a board A-10-2 A if you have been firing at them the right way. In that situation they would believe someone in EP with an A would check the flop, smooth call or check raise the flop and especially a check raise on the turn--while you take it down unimproved with KQ--although if they call a check raised turn, you are done (sometimes the gutshot J on the river will only get you into more trouble too).
In any case, you will should expect tension so again if you are a little steamed from losing you won't be up for these situations coupled with the fact that your table image is not such that you can pull off what needs to be done if presented with the right situation.

fammy · Pair Joined: 13 Nov 2005 Posts: 21

Hello again,

I hate to bring this back up, but in all honesty, I just want to make sure I am not missing the boat here. Going along nicely with my tracking software, keeping a good tight aggressive game going, and in general, I am having fun (not a bad combo).

In reviewing my stats after my last session, I came across some information that, at least to me, seems rather disturbing, but somewhat reassuring in some ways as well. I found that I am a "winning" player on a regular basis from EVERY position except the blinds after approx 6K hands. The problem seems to be that my best position...at least at this point which is MP+2 shows a BB won/hand at .17, but my BB status is a loss of -0.33 BB won/hand and my SB status is a loss of -0.10 BB won per hand. I should add, that I am up overall, so it is not like the blinds are draining me...but they are taking out a good healthy chunk.

Am I in the right ballpark here, or should I be defending these a little more aggressively? I know that a players is "supposed" to lose money in the blinds....I just want to make sure that my losses are acceptable.

Any thoughts?

High blood sugar gets you in 20 years, low blood sugar gets you today.

Fammy

deadmoney314 · Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:48 pm Post subject: the blinds

Everybody loses money in the blinds, if they didn't, you would play any two cards that came your way because it would mean everything is profitable. Your stats are acceptable but I don't think the way to improve is a more aggressive defense. Whenever you get a free look at the flop and do manage to connect pretty well are you slow playing or playing strongly? I think a lot of people slow play good flops but imho any time you can connect with garbage for free is the time you should be defending the hell out of your "gift" from the poker gods. Be more willing to release a hand preflop in the blind if someone raises and there are two cold calls behind but again there are no absolutes in poker and depending on the complextion of the game and who is entering the pot and what you know of them you may change your decision. Just as your MP+2 is your best seat, the blinds give you a huge position deficit that is hard to overcome even when you get cards in the blind. Its too bad there is no real textbook play for poker as too many variables come into play but remember, everyone loses in the blind--how much is up to you.

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