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jongreenway · Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:29 pm Post subject: 1 Outer

A couple days ago, in a $24 tourney (Was 14th at the time out of 300)

Me SB: Hole: Qh9h - Everyone folds around
BB: checks
Flop: Ah3h4h
Me SB: check
BB: Bet Pot
Me SB: call
Turn: 6s
Me SB: check
BB: Bet Pot
Me SB: call
River: 5h
Me SB: all in
BB: Call

Me SB shows Qh 9h (Flush)
BB shows 2h Js (Straight Flush)

His straight flush beats my flush

emoney_33 · Full House Joined: 22 Nov 2005 Posts: 199

that sux but why werent you raising him? If he had the king of hearts even you are checking and letting him bet or check to chase.

But yea those 1 outters sure do suck, but luckily they very rarely happen

jongreenway · Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:34 pm Post subject:

Even if he had the king of hearts, that would mean there are 6 hearts out already, and 7 left in the deck. 14% on each card is not that great chance EVEN if he has the king of hearts. that on top of, he was a loose player all game, gave me no reason to re raise him.

I think everyone would agree

Honest_Rob · Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:46 pm Post subject:

I don't agree. You should have raised his post flop and turn bet. Better to win a small pot then lose a big one. The pot wouldn't even have been small. Raise...

emoney_33 · Full House Joined: 22 Nov 2005 Posts: 199

while YOU know that you have 2 hearts, he doesn't, though he can guess it. So from what he knows, he has 9 outs to that flush if he held the king. I would have at LEAST raised the turn and most likely both the flop and the turn. If you are confident you have the best hand (but not the nuts and still someone could be drawing to a better hand) get the most in the pot you can.

jongreenway · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:03 am Post subject:

From my perspective, say i think he has 7 outs (he has the king of hearts lets say). That means he is 14% on each card.

What is the probability he has the king of hearts? Let's say 50/50. That means the risk I am at is 7% a card (ASSUMING he has the king of hearts AND another heart comes up).

I am sure all of you take bets where the chance of you losing is 7% on each card. Poker is no guarenteed winnings and I am sure everyone would give someone another card if they have a <10% chance of hitting what they need, as longas you are going to get more out of them in the future - especially if they are bluffing (Which he was).

You aren't a genious and I would play it the same way next time, as I have been for a hwile and have been doing quite well.

2% was his odds and he hit it. I read him right and didn't put him on a king.

emoney_33 · Full House Joined: 22 Nov 2005 Posts: 199

whether he had the king or not, you have the edge on the hand the whole time until the river. you check called him to the river, and on the river with 4 hearts on the board you go all in. With 4 hearts on the board what is going to call you in that situation? the Kh or that straight flush. You want to get your money in the pot when you KNOW you have the better hand. You waited to put your money in the pot until a time where he was only calling if he had you beat.

You didn't give him good odds to call but you didn't build the pot up enough when you had the lead. And in a tournament the pot odds are a little different, it's not strictly about pot odds. In a tourney, you go all out and you are done. In a cash game you can rebuy.

In that situation every time, if he doesn't hit on the river he folds to your all in. So you win only his bets up until the turn. You raise the turn and/or flop and you get more chips, which you will win most of time. If he does hit in that situation on the river, you lose your whole stack or double him up if you have more, so you are willing to lose more if he hits than you would win if he misses. In a cash game it evens out over time and you win in the long run. In a tourney you dont get first place from winning that hand unless it's heads up and you bust him, so it doesnt' exactly even out

Honest_Rob · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:47 pm Post subject:

I think you played the hand poorly. That's my opinion. I can see the rationale of check calling the flop but not raising on the turn is wrong any way you look at it. You forgot one thing in your post. What if he has a suited King and he's beating you the whole way. Wouldn't you rather find out how strong he is early and be able to get away from the hand?(If he was, in this case he wasn't) He could have had any two cards because you didn't raise preflop. He could have K2 or anything. You don't have the nuts but you do have a strong hand but a hand that is beatable and that did get beat. You let him stay and you paid for it. That's my interpretation. You posted this on a public forum to hear others interpretations right? So don't insult us for discussing a hand with you. We're all here trying to get better by helping each other out.

ajnate · Pair Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 44

I agree with Rob on this one. I would've check-raised him on the flop or the turn. His betting pattern to me suggested that he might be holding a set (3s or 4s) or two pair. It didn't seem like a draw. I would've done whatever I could to get all the chips in the pot (or knock him off of it, in case he is drawing to the nuts).

At some point when you're holding a big hand (that isn't the nuts), you have to say the pot is big enough, let's take it down now. IMO river betting, out of position, without the nuts is a losing proposition. You were out of position and you didn't have the nuts. A bet by you on the river is too likely to not be called, or he beats you. So why wait?

foldthemnow · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:40 pm Post subject:

I also agree with Rob and ajnate, raise him on the flop and the turn, you have to know where you are in the hand. I'm sure you know this already, but in tournament play it's about surviving as long as you can and taking down the most pots. You didn't play it horribly, but you eventually put it all in so why not get it in early and put him to a more difficult decision.

mistaken69 · Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:58 am Post subject:

your play isnt horrible..i might have doen the same thing...maybe i would have raised on the turn. I dont know because i wasnt in that particular situation at that particular moment. By no means is your play incorrect and it was a suckout....youll get it next time.

michaellewis · Flush Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 126

50/50 says he has the king of hearts? LoL I'll take the over on that..

ajnate · Pair Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 44

BOYNAMEDSUE · Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:08 pm Post subject:

Very odd hand. You don't raise when you pretty much have the nuts, and stand to make more money, but go all-in when your hand is vulnerable, and you can only lose money? You dug your own grave that hand, but don't worry. We've all done that.

henrybloogada · High Card Joined: 28 Sep 2005 Posts: 19

fooooooget about it

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