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deathtopaul
Four of a Kind
Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 334
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 Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:00 am Post subject: Might start mixing in some omaha |
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Well I was having a down day at the NLHE tables, so I decided to just screw around and enter a $20+$2 Omaha Hi/Lo SnG. I haven't played much omaha with the exception of some FT freerolls a few months ago, but I don't think I'm too bad at it. Anyhow, I found I really like the game (not just because I won  ), and thought it might be nice to throw in some omaha SnGs and cash games along with my normal HE tables to keep from getting too bored. Of course I don't know enough to head right into cash games, so I thought it would be a good idea to get some advice first.
First off I wanted some opinions on Hi/Lo vs Hi. I personally like Hi/Lo better since it adds a whole other aspect to the game. I don't know how the cash games go, but I would think you end up paying a lot more rake at Hi/Lo tables due to the split pots. Is that correct?
Also, what kind of starting hands do you like to enter pots with (in both forms of the game)? What's good enough to raise or call a raise with?
Overall though, it seems like omaha players at this level have less of an understanding of the game then holdem players at the same stakes. Are the games really softer or did I just get a wrong first impression? |
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Zophar
Moderator
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 3505
Location: East Coast
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Might start mixing in some omaha |
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| deathtopaul wrote: |
Well I was having a down day at the NLHE tables, so I decided to just screw around and enter a $20+$2 Omaha Hi/Lo SnG. I haven't played much omaha with the exception of some FT freerolls a few months ago, but I don't think I'm too bad at it. Anyhow, I found I really like the game (not just because I won ), and thought it might be nice to throw in some omaha SnGs and cash games along with my normal HE tables to keep from getting too bored. Of course I don't know enough to head right into cash games, so I thought it would be a good idea to get some advice first.
First off I wanted some opinions on Hi/Lo vs Hi. I personally like Hi/Lo better since it adds a whole other aspect to the game. I don't know how the cash games go, but I would think you end up paying a lot more rake at Hi/Lo tables due to the split pots. Is that correct?
Also, what kind of starting hands do you like to enter pots with (in both forms of the game)? What's good enough to raise or call a raise with?
Overall though, it seems like omaha players at this level have less of an understanding of the game then holdem players at the same stakes. Are the games really softer or did I just get a wrong first impression? |
Yes, a bit more rake is often paid, but moreso in PLO8 vs. LO8.
As far as starting hand selection goes, skim through the O8 section of the forum, but this has some good info.
http://pokerforums.fulltiltpoker.com/viewtopic.php?t=25087
For Limit:
As far as what to raise or call with, that can often be more determined by the game running than anything else. There are really 2 types of hands, pushing or pulling. Pushing hands play better short, so the raise is more to isolate. Pulling hands play very well both ways(hi or low) and raises here are ideally value.
For instance, if you pick up AK23ds UTG, you may not want to raise, because you do want action. If you pick it up in the BB, a raise here is advisable. A3109ss on the other hand is playable, but best played HU. A hand like this, depending on the quality of players at the table, I will either muck UTG(9 handed) or open raise 6 handed to push(isolate). If I pick it up in the CO or button and the pot is dry, I would definitely open raise it.
For PLO8:
I generally play PLO8 a bit more aggressively because of stacking and/or bluffing ability being added to the game. Most hands I'll open for a raise(6 handed) and will reraise in position often. Isolating is much easier here, so my pushing hands can be played from earlier positions. Pulling hands I will play aggressively aswell, but the goal with these is to still keep some people in the hand. Usually after some time at the table, you'lll be able to determine the best approach to take against the specific players to get max value.
Most of the LL O8 players are lacking in fundamentals. This can be to your benefit, but sometimes it isn't. That's why you basically should have one primary objective, play for the nuts. Nut high or nut low or both, play for the nuts. |
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deathtopaul
Four of a Kind
Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 334
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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I definately plan on playing PLO8. Limit games don't really suit me.
I'm a little unsure of what your goal is when playing more passively with pulling hands. Is it to ensure that you still make some profit off the extra callers if you end up splitting the pot?
I also might just play hi/lo for SnGs and hi for cash games. How does the strategy differ there? |
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Zophar
Moderator
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 3505
Location: East Coast
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| deathtopaul wrote: |
I definately plan on playing PLO8. Limit games don't really suit me.
I'm a little unsure of what your goal is when playing more passively with pulling hands. Is it to ensure that you still make some profit off the extra callers if you end up splitting the pot?
I also might just play hi/lo for SnGs and hi for cash games. How does the strategy differ there? |
Because of the nature of LO8, pulling or pushing hands are a little more important to play by their strengths than in PLO8.
Tableselection IMO is key to how to play any given hands in PLO8. Obviously the goal is to get action w/your big hands, so sometimes playing bigger hands passively will be the proper play. Other times, straightforward aggression will be the best approach.
Pulling hands are strong up and down and play well multi-way, but don't come up too often, so it's important to figure out the table dynamic right away. Mixing up your limps w/raises will make it much harder to put you on a hand.
Only real strategy difference between O8 ring vs tourney is gamble a bit less.
As far as PLO8 vs. PLO, they vary greatly in starting hands(middle suited connectors 45-10J are no good at all), but pre and postflop play is very similar. |
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jbrennen
Straight Flush
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 422
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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PLO/8 (and NLO/8) are fairly "new" games. Most of the existing literature that you'll find on Omaha/8 is intended for the limit game. For instance, Ray Zee has a really well-regarded book on Hi/Lo split games which does a great job of covering Limit Omaha/8. But PL and NL play a bit differently of course.
I'd suggest reading the three PLO/8 articles by Steve Ruddock which you'll find here: http://www.pokerpages.com/articles/players/index.htm
Also realize that one-way hands (high only) are more playable in PL or NL O/8 than they are in a limit game, because you will be able to bet so much postflop that low draws are priced out. Generally, somebody will need a scoop draw in order to profitably call your postflop bets. And you'll sometimes find people who will draw anyway even when they are not priced in, which is good for your profitability. |
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deathtopaul
Four of a Kind
Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 334
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the help guys. I don't know how much I will get to play though since the sites I'm at don't have much going on in the world of omaha, so I'm gonna try to throw in the occasional SnG when I can. Too bad I can't get rakeback at FT, it seems like there's always a ton going on here regardless of which game you play. |
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KronX
Pot Committed
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 3338
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Zophar wrote: |
Because of the nature of LO8, pulling or pushing hands are a little more important to play by their strengths than in PLO8.. |
What are pulling and pushing hands? |
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Strasse
Forum Ego
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 3933
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| KronX wrote: |
| Zophar wrote: |
Because of the nature of LO8, pulling or pushing hands are a little more important to play by their strengths than in PLO8.. |
What are pulling and pushing hands? |
Pulling hands are hands that you want to pull people into the pot(play multiway), while pushing hands are hands that you want to push people out of the pot with(play HU). |
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