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jdubtd10
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:04 pm    Post subject: AK laydown Reply with quote

I'm sure this is a common question, here's the situation...
Middle of a multi, blinds 150/300. UTG raises to 1100, I'm in middle position with AK and reraise to 3000, UTG instantly goes all-in for 9500. At this point I have to call 6500 into a pot of ~10,000. I know the player to be solid and tight and am fairly certain he wouldn't have done that with a hand like AQ. At best I believe it to be a coin toss and muck the hand. Calling would have left me with 2000 chips. Good or bad laydown?
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bradAAAk
Four of a Kind


Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 293

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally think that it was a good laydown. If the player was tight then chances are you were at best a coin flip in which you probably don't want to put your whole tournament on the line for.
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bashtoreth
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Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the thing: If you know him to be solid and tight, wouldn't you assume he had at least JJ, and possibly QQ-AA under the gun? I would have folded to that first bet--ONLY against a solid, tight player UTG. Any other type player or any other position I would have played it the same way you did.

Think about it this way: If Dan Harrington raises UTG at a full table, mid-tourney, would you call? I would lay it down in a heartbeat. I would assume I was at best 50/50 (if he had AK).
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BOYNAMEDSUE
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
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Location: Mypos

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

bashtoreth wrote:
Here's the thing: If you know him to be solid and tight, wouldn't you assume he had at least JJ, and possibly QQ-AA under the gun? I would have folded to that first bet--ONLY against a solid, tight player UTG. Any other type player or any other position I would have played it the same way you did.

Think about it this way: If Dan Harrington raises UTG at a full table, mid-tourney, would you call? I would lay it down in a heartbeat. I would assume I was at best 50/50 (if he had AK).


Just 'cause someone is solid doesn't mean he has KK or AA, the only two hands that have you in bad shape. If he thought you were playing too many hands he might have moved all-in with AQ or a pair JJ or lower.

Not saying he didn't have KK or AA, but it's unlikely. You have both an A and a K. And if you thought it was a coin flip, then you're getting good odds to call.

Also, you've invested a little more than 25% of your chips. I like to make up my mind before I raise. If I'm gonna invest 25% of my chips raising, then I'm calling the reraise, unless I'm bluffing.

So I would have called. I'm not good enough to put people on specific hands. AK is a good hand, and you already have more than 25% of your chips invested. If it were Dan Harrington, I might have folded, but I've never seen a Dan Harrington online.

But folding is not bad either. Like DH says, folding is always an inexpensive option.

'Action' Dan's the man!
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bashtoreth
Pair


Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:12 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

BOYNAMEDSUE wrote:

Just 'cause someone is solid doesn't mean he has KK or AA, the only two hands that have you in bad shape. If he thought you were playing too many hands he might have moved all-in with AQ or a pair JJ or lower.

Not saying he didn't have KK or AA, but it's unlikely. You have both an A and a K. And if you thought it was a coin flip, then you're getting good odds to call.

Also, you've invested a little more than 25% of your chips. I like to make up my mind before I raise. If I'm gonna invest 25% of my chips raising, then I'm calling the reraise, unless I'm bluffing.

So I would have called. I'm not good enough to put people on specific hands. AK is a good hand, and you already have more than 25% of your chips invested. If it were Dan Harrington, I might have folded, but I've never seen a Dan Harrington online.

But folding is not bad either. Like DH says, folding is always an inexpensive option.

'Action' Dan's the man!

One last thing to think about:... The pros always say to be the one to go all-in and rarely be the caller, unless you are pretty sure you have the all-in beat....
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The New One
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:47 am    Post subject: Your little Raise Reply with quote

Well as ther previous person had stated, If you re-raised, you had to make it up in your mind before you re raised that if he goes all in or reraises you are you going to call? IF not dont even play. When I play on hands like kj off suit I will call, but then a high re raise will come in and i will fold. You need to think someonetimes before you do things on what your going to do next. Now my call wasnt bad, but had I raised it could of been done.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree with these other people

If you knew him to be a tight player why even reraise his original bet, just call and check out the flop.

The raise of his original bet is where I think you went wrong, he already made a large sized bet almost 4 times the big blind, there is no need for you to reraise unless you have AA or KK in my opinion.
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muck luck
Four of a Kind


Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 317
Location: lafayette

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i would say if u wanted to win the tourney to take the gamble and call it. Odds are he didn't have AA or KK so it's most likely 50/50. I think either play was correct here.
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UrbanMeyer1
Royal Flush


Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 720
Location: Gainesville, FL (The Swamp)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pot odds are great obviously but you can't strictly thing those if you still have plenty of chips left. Why would your tournament life on what is a at best a coinflip? You no longer have the ability to get him to fold as well. I would fold with your read.

However, I wouldn't re-raise 1/4 of my stack if I am going to throw it away. Just call in position on him or throw it away. It's quite alright to throw AK away preflop especially when you are in such good chip position.
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SuperUberBob
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If he was playing tight and raised preflop, I probably would have just called unless I had a high pocket pair.

In your situation, however, I felt you did the right thing. It would probably a coin flip situation: not worth betting everything I got on.
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Saint Cad
Full House


Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 184

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

bashtoreth wrote:
Here's the thing: If you know him to be solid and tight, wouldn't you assume he had at least JJ, and possibly QQ-AA under the gun? I would have folded to that first bet--ONLY against a solid, tight player UTG. Any other type player or any other position I would have played it the same way you did.


I would not have raised. This would have be a good spot to call, see the flop, and decide whether to bet, trap, steal, etc.

What you did by raising was to give your opponant an opportunity to reraise when you were not prepared to call.
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targetam
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:52 am    Post subject: laydown AK? Reply with quote

I play tourneys every weekend, live game. I raised UTG w 77 allin. I pushed out 88 in the SB, and A 3 in the BB. If the called i was dead money. A 8 A flopped. I think you gotta read your player's move, not just his game.
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UrbanMeyer1
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Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 720
Location: Gainesville, FL (The Swamp)

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:43 pm    Post subject: Re: laydown AK? Reply with quote

targetam wrote:
I play tourneys every weekend, live game. I raised UTG w 77 allin. I pushed out 88 in the SB, and A 3 in the BB. If the called i was dead money. A 8 A flopped. I think you gotta read your player's move, not just his game.


huh??
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