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Zophar
Moderator
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 3586
Location: East Coast
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 Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:35 pm Post subject: A PLO8 hand |
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Full Tilt Poker Game #3193107448: Table Jernae (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - $10 Cap Pot Limit Omaha H/L - 18:19:58 ET - 2007/08/08
Seat 2: PoshNana ($19.75)
Seat 3: pushpop ($17)
Seat 4: loungesinger ($36.80)
Seat 5: Mongo34 ($18.90)
Seat 6: Zophar ($24.60)
Zophar posts the small blind of $0.10
PoshNana posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Zophar [4h 6h 3s 2d]
pushpop has 15 seconds left to act
pushpop calls $0.25
loungesinger calls $0.25
Mongo34 calls $0.25
Zophar calls $0.15
PoshNana checks
*** FLOP *** [5c 9h Ac]
Zophar checks
PoshNana bets $0.25
imanut815 sits down
imanut815 adds $20
pushpop has 15 seconds left to act
pushpop calls $0.25
loungesinger folds
Mongo34 folds
Zophar ?
I'm thinking I should try to get as much here as possible. Am I erring in thinking this? Should I have lead out? Should I check raise pot it here? That's what I'm thinking. |
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DJ Ninjah
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 2582
Location: New York, NY
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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You should have lead out with a $1 bet.
As played feel free to raise but I wouldn't be shocked to see you sharing the low draw right now. I have no reason ATM to expect either of these players to have anything but a draw, and a weak one at that. |
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Zophar
Moderator
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 3586
Location: East Coast
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| DJ Ninjah wrote: |
You should have lead out with a $1 bet.
As played feel free to raise but I wouldn't be shocked to see you sharing the low draw right now. I have no reason ATM to expect either of these players to have anything but a draw, and a weak one at that. |
Even with the flush draw out there and being OOP on the turn? |
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GripHoldOn
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 2095
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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9 cards give you the nut high and low, 11 others give you the nut low only. I'd probably push this one as hard as I could on the flop. I like check-raising pot.
Slow down on the turn if we miss, merely check-calling. |
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DJ Ninjah
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 2582
Location: New York, NY
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| GripHoldOn wrote: |
9 cards give you the nut high and low, 11 others give you the nut low only. I'd probably push this one as hard as I could on the flop. I like check-raising pot.
Slow down on the turn if we miss, merely check-calling. |
Only 6 cards give him the nut high, and he very well could be sharing the nut low. No club draw it's auto-pot on the raise. With the possible flush draw and the third player, your equity isn't great. Still though it's a raise probably to between $1 and $1.50. |
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cubbies760
Drawing Dead
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 6989
Location: Suburban Chicago
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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I would have lead out OTF for 1/2 pot or pot. Any respectable low draw is going to call, or even raise....not knowing that you have the best low draw of them all.
You have a great chance of chopping a 3-handed pot, and a decent chance of a scoop. |
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Zophar
Moderator
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 3586
Location: East Coast
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I got what I thought I wanted. I've got to do the math on situations like this using some random hand possibilities. I think I need a better sense of possible pot equity against the variety of hands that would continue.
Full Tilt Poker Game #3193107448: Table Jernae (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - $10 Cap Pot Limit Omaha H/L - 18:19:58 ET - 2007/08/08
Seat 2: PoshNana ($19.75)
Seat 3: pushpop ($17)
Seat 4: loungesinger ($36.80)
Seat 5: Mongo34 ($18.90)
Seat 6: Zophar ($24.60)
Zophar posts the small blind of $0.10
PoshNana posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Zophar [4h 6h 3s 2d]
pushpop has 15 seconds left to act
pushpop calls $0.25
loungesinger calls $0.25
Mongo34 calls $0.25
Zophar calls $0.15
PoshNana checks
*** FLOP *** [5c 9h Ac]
Zophar checks
PoshNana bets $0.25
imanut815 sits down
imanut815 adds $20
pushpop has 15 seconds left to act
pushpop calls $0.25
loungesinger folds
Mongo34 folds
Zophar raises to $2.25
PoshNana raises to $8.25
pushpop has 15 seconds left to act
pushpop folds
Zophar raises to $9.75, and is capped
PoshNana calls $1.50, and is capped
Zophar shows [4h 6h 3s 2d]
PoshNana shows [9d 9s As 8s]
*** TURN *** [5c 9h Ac] [Th]
*** RIVER *** [5c 9h Ac Th] [5d]
Zophar shows a pair of Fives, for high
PoshNana shows a full house, Nines full of Fives, for high
PoshNana wins the pot ($19.95) with a full house, Nines full of Fives
No low hand qualified
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $21 | Rake $1.05
Board: [5c 9h Ac Th 5d]
Seat 2: PoshNana (big blind) showed [9d 9s As 8s] and won ($19.95) with HI: a full house, Nines full of Fives
Seat 3: pushpop folded on the Flop
Seat 4: loungesinger folded on the Flop
Seat 5: Mongo34 (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: Zophar (small blind) showed [4h 6h 3s 2d] and lost with HI: a pair of Fives
Since this time, I have discovered that 20 outs equates to drawing dead and 2-3 outs is the nuts. Also that a nut wrap hi/lo draw won't beat a nut low only draw on the flop. |
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cubbies760
Drawing Dead
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 6989
Location: Suburban Chicago
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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Do you regret the push?
If a similiar hand arises in the future with a similiar flop, will you make the same play, and if not, what adjustment(s) will you make? |
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Zophar
Moderator
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 3586
Location: East Coast
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| cubbies760 wrote: |
Do you regret the push?
If a similiar hand arises in the future with a similiar flop, will you make the same play, and if not, what adjustment(s) will you make? |
Before I answer that, I want to run some simulations against likely hands faced, on twodimes. With 20 outs to the nut low and only 6 to the nut high, I'm confident in it multiway, but HU against a made hand, I'm not so sure. If I had 2 clubs to act as blockers to a higher flush(or possibly the only flush draw), I'm much more confident about the play. I'll revisit it. |
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DJ Ninjah
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 2582
Location: New York, NY
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Zophar wrote: |
| cubbies760 wrote: |
Do you regret the push?
If a similiar hand arises in the future with a similiar flop, will you make the same play, and if not, what adjustment(s) will you make? |
Before I answer that, I want to run some simulations against likely hands faced, on twodimes. With 20 outs to the nut low and only 6 to the nut high, I'm confident in it multiway, but HU against a made hand, I'm not so sure. If I had 2 clubs to act as blockers to a higher flush(or possibly the only flush draw), I'm much more confident about the play. I'll revisit it. |
This was the reason I was in favor of the $1 to $1.50 raise. 1) It's keeping most people in the hand (which is what you want here). 2) If you get reraised, the raise will be smaller. Given that it's CAP PL, I'm not sure that even if you had made a smaller raise, and only called the turn, you could get away from the hand. If this were uncapped, I'm be strongly in favor of only calling the raise, it's pretty obvious what he has here, and on a brick turn like you got, you can fold. |
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Zophar
Moderator
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 3586
Location: East Coast
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| DJ Ninjah wrote: |
| Zophar wrote: |
| cubbies760 wrote: |
Do you regret the push?
If a similiar hand arises in the future with a similiar flop, will you make the same play, and if not, what adjustment(s) will you make? |
Before I answer that, I want to run some simulations against likely hands faced, on twodimes. With 20 outs to the nut low and only 6 to the nut high, I'm confident in it multiway, but HU against a made hand, I'm not so sure. If I had 2 clubs to act as blockers to a higher flush(or possibly the only flush draw), I'm much more confident about the play. I'll revisit it. |
This was the reason I was in favor of the $1 to $1.50 raise. 1) It's keeping most people in the hand (which is what you want here). 2) If you get reraised, the raise will be smaller. Given that it's CAP PL, I'm not sure that even if you had made a smaller raise, and only called the turn, you could get away from the hand. If this were uncapped, I'm be strongly in favor of only calling the raise, it's pretty obvious what he has here, and on a brick turn like you got, you can fold. |
I still haven't run any simulations on this hand, but I have been thinking about it. I think the CAP structure is the primary issue. If any hand gets raised on the flop w/a solid draw, you are almost commited from that point on.
I think no matter what, this hand plays out virtually the same way. I raise him(not pot it) and it's almost guaranteed he pots it and I'm either forced to push or call. I push we see all 5. I call and I'm commited on the turn. |
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