Online Poker Forum - Suspected Collusion

Salinar · High Card Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 8

I was going to email support and flag these cheaters but I would like a second opinion first. Here is the hand in question:

Full Tilt Poker Game #3095629195: Table Gifford (6 max) - $8/$16 - Limit Omaha H/L - 19:20:04 ET - 2007/07/29
Seat 1: lilsunshine222 ($378.50)
Seat 2: wakatak77 ($617)
Seat 3: BOO2345 ($320)
Seat 4: Salinar ($435.50)
Seat 5: DSECAPITAL ($36)
Seat 6: Scope ($55)
Scope has 5 seconds left to act
Scope posts the small blind of $4
lilsunshine222 posts the big blind of $8
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Salinar [2c 3h 3s Ah]
wakatak77 raises to $16
Salinar calls $16
DSECAPITAL has 15 seconds left to act
DSECAPITAL folds
Scope folds
BOO2345 is feeling angry
lilsunshine222 calls $8
*** FLOP *** [Ks Jh 5h]
lilsunshine222 checks
wakatak77 bets $8
Salinar calls $8
lilsunshine222 calls $8
*** TURN *** [Ks Jh 5h] [4d]
lilsunshine222 bets $16
wakatak77 raises to $32
Salinar calls $32
lilsunshine222 calls $16
*** RIVER *** [Ks Jh 5h 4d] [Tc]
lilsunshine222 checks
wakatak77 checks
Salinar checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
wakatak77 shows [Ts 4s Ad Kh] two pair, Kings and Tens, for high
Salinar mucks
lilsunshine222 mucks
wakatak77 wins the pot ($169) with two pair, Kings and Tens
No low hand qualified
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $172 | Rake $3
Board: [Ks Jh 5h 4d Tc]
Seat 1: lilsunshine222 (big blind) mucked [7c 4c 2s 3c] - HI: a pair of Fours
Seat 2: wakatak77 showed [Ts 4s Ad Kh] and won ($169) with HI: two pair, Kings and Tens
Seat 3: BOO2345 is sitting out
Seat 4: Salinar mucked [2c 3h 3s Ah] - HI: a pair of Threes
Seat 5: DSECAPITAL (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Scope (small blind) folded before the Flop

Please note the play on the TURN. The 4d most likely wouldn't not help anyone but lilsunshine222 bets out with a purely garbage hand and wakatak77 raises and forces me to call a double bet. This is clearly collusion, There is absolutely no good reason lilsunshine222 would bet there with only a 23 low draw and a pair of fours. When I confronted them with this in the chat they had no response.

Thoughts?

live4freerolls · Banned Joined: 23 Nov 2006 Posts: 2588 Location: Grindin

I don't think that there is any solid prof for collusion there.. but it never hurts to email collusion@fulltiltpoker.com if you suspect somethings fishy.

cubbies760 · Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:49 pm Post subject:

It is a real stretch to say that was collusion. Lilsunshine play was definately not a good play, but maybe a poor player decides to make that bet hoping for an A or 6 OTR for a possible scoop, or a 7 or 8 for a possible low.

I'm not saying that this was a good play. It wasn't, but it seems far from collusion.

Zophar · Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject:

He's leading with a pair of 4's 23 low and an OESD. Not a great hand by any means, but I've seen the play done constantly. Just a donkbet. If you have several other examples to help paint a bigger picture, you're going to need it. This alone was just an example of bad play.

Amazing fit for your hand on the turn though, awful that you missed. Your name seems familiar, do you post over in the 2+2 O8 forum?

IABoomer · Moderator Joined: 29 Oct 2006 Posts: 6145

23 low, pair of 4s, and low OESD. I'd be hard pressed to call it collusion, especially in a fixed-limit game.

Collusion like this usually occurs when you're between the players and they can squeeze you. I don't see how being in position to both of them put you in a position to be colluded against.

Salinar · High Card Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 8

You people are right that it could be a donk bet but it's $8/$16 folks and that kind of play I don't usually see at these stakes. Plus they didn't respond when I said they were colluding and both of them were only playing 1 table so it's fishy. I guess I have to do the work and go over the rest of the hand history to see if anything else is suspect and I'll post it here if I find anything.

Oh, I never posted on 2+2 though it's a great forum ...

BOYNAMEDSUE · Moderator Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 8617 Location: Mypos

I think if lilsunshine222 had reraised on the turn you'd have a better case. If he were really trying to build a pot he wouldn't have just called. Besides, on the turn wakatak77 only has tptk. Not exactly a hand worthy of building a pot.

Frankjones · Two Pair Joined: 10 Jun 2007 Posts: 75

This is the least convincing example of collusion I have ever seen. I expected to see a HH where two players bet and raised every street the maximum number of times with someone caught in the middle. This was just a questionable play.

Hibs_boy · High Card Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 14

Zophar: I bet you are thinking of SALAZAAAR!

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