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viktor2324 · High Card Joined: 15 Nov 2005 Posts: 2

It was my first SNG. It was about the first round I was (1 500 chips) in BB with QQ, the man to my left limp in (A=2100 chips), the man before the botton limp in (B= 400 chips). I made it 4x ; A and B called. The flop was As Qd 7c. I bet only 50 hoping for a raise. A called and B went ALL IN. I re raise to 600, A called. The turn was Xs. I put all my chips about 800 chips A called. The river was other spade. A had As 8s. B had 9s8c. So I lost to a A high flush. Was my mistake betting only 50 on the flop, but also I re raised on flop too.

JaketheStake · Straight Flush Joined: 03 Nov 2005 Posts: 415

Eh, if it was a low enough SnG, you'da probably been called no matter what. Can't say you played WRONG...however, consider if, knowing you'll likely be called, you really want even a 25% chance of being eliminated at this point? Sure, you could double up...but a lot of times you're going home too.

Iwineverypot · Flush Joined: 21 Aug 2005 Posts: 131

catching that flush definitely was less than a 25% chance....and in a tourney, you might not ever see a better spot than this, so yes you made a fine play. The bet on the flop was a bit weak but it wasnt a situation in which u really had to protect ur hand - rainbow flop and 2 potential connecting cards (aq) but still not a time when u need to protect. U also said u ended up raising it up on the flop to a decent amount and still got called -- seems like u were both pot commited at this point anyway so i dont see why u didnt just push all in. The turn brought the inevitable all in from you to protect the flush and because u were pretty much commited to this hand - and he made the call because u had commited him. He hit his ~18% shot on the river and won -- it happens but you played it fine. The guy above me is a moron -- if you're not going to risk your tourney life on a set of q's when the guy has to hit a backdoor flush against you to win(not to mention you could've rivered somethin to fill up your boat -- so your chance of losing that hand was actually more like 15% or less) then when ARE you? It's not very often that you have a 100% chance of taking down a pot -- i mean by this guy's logic going all in preflop with AA is a bad play in a tourney cuz u might have a chance that ur eliminated.....

UrbanMeyer1 · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:38 am Post subject:

This is much too results oriented, but nonetheless:
1) Raise 5x or more preflop with 2 limpers, especially OOP.
2) Definately lead more than 50, lead 2/3 of the pot more in to this board with an Ace, you should most definately get some action.

JaketheStake · Straight Flush Joined: 03 Nov 2005 Posts: 415

Um, name calling will get you nowhere, ass bag. Just because you can't understand a post doesn't make it wrong, and sure as hell doesn't make the poster an idiot, though calling him one may reveal your own stupidity.

Hellmuth, for example, once layed down KdJd to a [Qd 10d 2c] flop when raised all in. With a 2 cards to go at a straight flush, straight, flush and possible high card pairs, he layed them down because tournaments are full of players who go out on good but not great hands, and pure dumbass luck means that somebody is going to get a suck-out more than a few times. Watch the WSOP if you have trouble believing this.

Do I know what the guy was thinking when he went all-in? Nope. Probably a bluff he didn't expect to be called, and the short stack probably just thought it was time to make a move. Did he suck one out? Yep. Many poker greats, including Dunson and Caro, have discussed how hard it is to get away from a high pocket pair, and rightly so. But, in a cash game, you'd have only lost some money, right? The decision to call or not can be made by evaluating your outs, opponents likely hands, and the money in the pot. As someone else said, at an ~18% chance to suck out, you wouldn't be wrong making the same play again and again IN A CASH GAME.

In a tourney...it's pack your **** and go home time. Get it?

BTB...only thing I can think of that was off was my original estimation of your chances. That's because I was on my way out the door but wanted to reply to you, this was an eyeball, gutshot estimate. And I was off by roughly the difference between 1/4 and 1/5. So, if that's it, get the **** over it.

DeezNutz05 · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:09 pm Post subject:

I would have probably done the same. I will usually slowplay trips when there is a rainbow on the board. If the board might have possibly given someone 4 to a flush, then I would have bet slightly more than the pot to give draws poor odds to call. If they still call when you are giving then bad pot odds to do so, they have made a bad play (not you), even if their draw does hit.

SKS_Poker · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:35 pm Post subject:

Personally I rarely slow play sets when there is A. any kind of a str8 draw on the board, B. any kind of flush draw on the board and/or C. I didn't make the top set, mainly because I want to either get people off their draws or want them to pay a high price vs. pot odds to make their draws.

Sometimes they make their draws and I end up on the losing end, but in the long-term scheme of things, these same players will lose more money and I will save/win more money.

On this particular hand, with an Ace on the board and another paint (the Queen) I don't want to bet out just 50 if someone happens to have KJ or K10 and is looking for a cheap draw. As well, in this particular scenario, given the player, he would have probably called you no matter what you bet on the flop, there are a lot of players out there that cannot let go of their ace when it hits, regardless of their kickers.

You didn't play it wrong if you were looking to re-raise in this situation because luckily you got that chance, but in the overall scheme of things, I'd never take the lead then make it cheap for someone to draw out against me. You got your re-raise chance this time, but there will be plenty of other times where you will just let someone with a mediocre draw make a better hand if you make this kind of play a habit.

Iwineverypot · Flush Joined: 21 Aug 2005 Posts: 131

lol this isn't the wsop it was an online s&g for cryin out loud. My point is that by your logic, you should fold aces preflop if you think someone else has a pair because you're only what 80 some odd % to win with aces vs. another pair? Seriously man, just get your money in as a favorite and whatever happens happens, nothing you can do if you get sucked out on like this. How many times are you going to be able to get all in vs. someone as an 80%+++ favorite and why wouldn't you want to? Are you the type of player that only bets when you have the nuts or something? Your hellmuth example is terrible, because although yeah that's a nice drawing hand it's not that much of a favorite over a made hand, it really depends on what he's putting his opponent on. To be honest, that hand sounds like hellmuth's opponent was all in semibluffing with a flush draw, which probably means if the flush did hit hellmuth would still have lost because the other guy had A-x of Diamonds. That would basically reduce hellmuth's chances of winning that hand to times when they both miss their draws but hellmuth pairs his K or J and his opp doesnt pai rhis ace, or when hellmuth hits a straight flush. So bascailly, he potentially could'v ehad less than a 20% chance of winning that hand which is why he didn't want to risk his tournament life on it. Anyway, go rethink what you said about not risking your tournament life on a 80+% shot, because if you're not willing to do that you don't really belong at a poker table. BTW, you are pretty damn stupid for contradicting your own **** comment:

"Um, name calling will get you nowhere, ass bag"

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