Online Poker Forum - Should trips be this vulnerable?

Randomish · Pair Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 23

Usually I do decently well in the SnG's. However recently there have been several times when I have lost all my chips when I made a set that didnt hold up. I dont have the hand histories but this is what happened as best as I can remember.

#1
I'm in middle position with 1100 in chips. the blinds are only about 25/50.
The guy Immediately to my right is down to 450 and is the shortstack.
I pick up pocket 3's, 1 person limps in, then its folded to the the shortstack who goes all in.

Im thinking theres a good chance this player feels desperate to get back in the running as he was just recently knocked so low. So I put him overs and I call.

It is folded back to the early limper who calles as well.

Pot 1.3K
flop:
5, 3, 7 rainbow

I'm thinking sweet, I made my trips, but theres a straight draw out there.
If the short stack is playing A4, A6. there isnt much I can do about it. And I don't think the other guy who had the second most chips prior to this hand whould have called an all in with me already in the pot if he were holding such a weak over.

He checks
I make a small probe bet of 150, which he rereaises to 300. Im thinking he just wants to take the shortstack out himself and hes on AK or maybe even A7. So I go all in with my last 500. He calls.

I show my set,
He shows pocket 6's
Short stack shows AJ off.

Turn:
(5, 3, 7) 9

River:
(5, 3, 7, 9,) 4

He makes his gutshort straight draw on the river to knock us both out.

#2
Only about 5 hands into the tournament
I pick up pocket 2's on the button. 2 limpers and I do so as well, sb limps, bb checks.

Pot 150
Flop: 2, 5, J

One of the limpers bets 60, folded to me, I reraise to 150. folded back to him. He reraises me to 300.
That makes me think for a second: I've made my set but he seems rather sure of his hand, or at least his ability to push me off of mine.

So I start thinking: what could he have? AK, AQ? I have seen a lot of people play overs to the board like they've flopped top pair, so theres a chance. AJ would make more sense. He might just be super loose and came in with J5, J2. Or hes on AA, KK or something and thinks hes got me right where he wants me and I won't see that comming if I only have J's. All of those possibilities still puts me on top.
The only thing i need to look out for is pocket 5's or J's, But thats pretty damn unlikely that we both flopped a set.

I decide that no matther what this guy has, he willing to go all in with it and so am I, so I raise to 700. He puts me all in and I call.

He turns over pocket 5's. Ouch

#3 Its down the the last 9 in a 18 person SnG. Blinds are 100/200.
I'm about middle of the pack with 2.5k in chips.
I look down to find pocket 9's on the button. Its folded to me, and I limp in.
If the table were getting short Id play there more agressively but at this point, I dont want to commit myself to a pot too much and see a flop with overs and have to let go of 1/4 - 1/3 of my stack because someones A hit.

SB limps, BB checks

Pot 600
Flop: 9, 6, 7 rainbow. Shocking, I've made my set. This could only help my standings in the tournament if I play it right Embarassed

Small blind raises 200, BB calls. I raise to 600. SB folds, BB calls

Pot 2k
Turn: (9, 6, 7) 4
That doesnt seem to help any hand he'd be playing at this point. He checks, I bet 400. Figuring that if he was playing overs that still haven't hit, he would not want to risk any more of his chips when I have been showing I have him beat. I know, bad move I had 1.3k before my bet, I should have gone all in offering him much less than 2-1 odds rahter than the 6-1 I gave him. He calls

2.8K
River: (9, 6, 7, 4) 10
He goes all in. Im thinking damnit, I knew I shouldn't have given odds to draw out on me because he will of course. But I only have 900 here, at this level of blinds thats only an M of 3 and It would be tought to get back in the running. I figure I have a better chace calling and taking the chance he only has 2 pair or A 10 or something. Or just bluffing like hell.
Im too commitited and I have a set with 3-1 pot odds. I have to call this.

He turns over A8, straight to the 10.

#4
I'm I middle postition with 950 in chips. I find pocket 10's. One guy raises to 800. I'm getting kind of tired so I'm not playing to well in this one so I figure theres a good chance I'm in a coin flip with this guy so I go all in. Folded to the button who thinks for a long time, then calls, Initial raiser calls as well. There goes my coin flip. It doesnt seem like the button had a hand good enough to justify a call, but that still doesnt help me much.

Flop: A, 9, 8
they check

Turn: (A, 9, 8) 6
they check

River: (A, 9, 8, 6) 10

Hey theres my set, I just might tripple up and beat someones Aces.

The initial raiser turns over KK
I turn over my set of 10's
The button turns over QJ, stright to the queen.

I was right about her hand not being good enough for the situation but that didnt stop her from beating 2 hands that were favorites on her.

Randomish · Pair Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 23

continued

2.8K
River: (9, 6, 7, 4) 10
He goes all in. Im thinking damnit, I knew I shouldn't have given odds to draw out on me because he will of course. But I only have 900 here, at this level of blinds thats only an M of 3 and It would be tought to get back in the running. I figure I have a better chace calling and taking the chance he only has 2 pair or A 10 or something. Or just bluffing like hell.
Im too commitited and I have a set with 3-1 pot odds. I have to call this.

He turns over A8, straight to the 10.

#4
I'm I middle postition with 950 in chips. I find pocket 10's. One guy raises to 800. I'm getting kind of tired so I'm not playing to well in this one so I figure theres a good chance I'm in a coin flip with this guy so I go all in. Folded to the button who thinks for a long time, then calls, Initial raiser calls as well. There goes my coin flip. It doesnt seem like the button had a hand good enough to justify a call, but that still doesnt help me much.

Flop: A, 9, 8
they check

Turn: (A, 9, 8 ) 6
they check

River: (A, 9, 8, 6) 10

Hey theres my set, I just might tripple up and beat someones Aces.

The initial raiser turns over KK
I turn over my set of 10's
The button turns over QJ, stright to the queen.

I was right about her hand no being good enough for the situation but that didnt stop her from beating 2 hands that were favorites on her.

dano2769 · Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:14 pm Post subject:

#1 - I would probably try to check this down and eliminate the player. Just my usual style. However, I don't mind the push. You just got unlucky.

#2 - With a bunchof limps, JJ nor AJ makes much sense to me. To the be honnest, the only hand I'm afraid of is 55 (there's a hand just like this is Super/System 2 if you have a copy handy). So I'd probably just call his reraise.

#3 - I'd raise preflop, but since you didn't, I'd definately push the turn, given how much you bet. You want all draws gone, but a top pair or two pair to call.

#4 - Unlucky.

UrbanMeyer1 · Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:46 pm Post subject:

Your preflop game is way off for a sng structure.

1) Very easy fold, calling w/ 33 is absolutely -EV everyday & twice on sunday.

2) You have to go broke here, unlucky.

3) You have to raise on the B especially, make it 600 and be prepared to put in on the flop if it's good enough.

4) What are the blinds? All 5 cards are coming though when you are allin PF, nothing you can do. The order doesn't matter.

goomlah · Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:05 am Post subject: Well,...

Urban and I agree on hands 2 and 4. Not much you could do with them, especially hand 2.

Hand 1: Early on the tourney, I tend to agree with Urban except for 1 thing. It seems like if there's an-all in and a call the other guys pocket 6's would seem to be up vs. at least 3 overcards. So If you were thinking your 3's were good and wanted to gamble, then it's not that terrible of a gamble.

Hand 3: Go all-in on the turn. If he calls knowing he has the worst of it and hits on your *** then so be it. Also, since there was 2000 in the pot and you had 1700 left, it's about the only thing you can bet to price out the draws. 1000 doesn't work IF the other guy doesn't think you have a set, which probably was the case. Therefore, he's counting his overcard as 3 more outs. In other words, 25% (roughly) to win the hand and calling 1000 (or 400 in your case) gives him the right to odds to call.

but my math must be fooling me cause you have 4 rounds of blinds (6.5 BB) IF you fold on the river. Definitely short stacked, but definitely not insurmountable. Besides, a lot of sucky players don't bluff the river that often here. They usually got the goods. Trust me, I've put myself in too many of these situations to count.

Having that said, This could be all avoided if you raise pre-flop with these pocket pairs. Limping with 3's and 2's is fine, especially in early position, but 9's in mid position have to be raised to protect yourself vs. random hands that can easily bust you if you hit your set or overpair.

leighs · Four of a Kind Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 301

Hand #1

I think you should fold 33 preflop. The limper will almost certainly call and 33 is not going to win often enough against 2 opponents - 33.6% against 2 random hands and these 2 hands will likely be better than random. Also, you are risking a large percentage of your stack.

Hand #2

Unlucky.

Hand #3

I understand what you're saying about limping because your stack size is kind of awkward but I think you have to raise to 600. You might win the blinds which is a good result or you might have a heads up pot with position. In the latter case, you should push if the situation is favorable. If you have to fold on the flop, then you still have 1900 left which is not good but you will still have some time to find a hand to get back in it since it is a full table.

Hand #4

What are the blinds? Assuming you are short stacked, then pushing with TT even after a raise seems fine to me.

UrbanMeyer1 · Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Well,...

searfoss · Two Pair Joined: 19 Oct 2005 Posts: 64

Lets talk about hand three and pricing out the draw. You chose to limp with nine from the button. This is not a favored play, but a play you can make from time to time. It adds deception to your hand. The BB, sitting on an open ended straight draw and an overcard probably thought those three aces were additional outs because of your limp (unless you had been caught limping with a premium hand).

Now, you flop a set, sb bets 200 and bb calls, you raise 400 to 600 total. Sb folds and BB is getting 4 to 1 pot odds to call. He thinks he has 11 outs which gives him the odds to call, but he actually only has 8 outs, which means his actual odds are closer to 5 to 1. This means that on the flop your raise induced the BB to make a mistake. He made a mistake that was in your favor, good raise.

Turn, you did provide him with 6 to 1 odds, so his call was right. This is where you should've moved in to pick up the pot.

Next time, when you limp pre-flop, understand the deception you are creating and play to it. Because your opponent may underestimate the strength of your hand you should be more aggressive than normal to make him think you're trying to steal. Your raise on the flop was good, but make a big one on the turn also. Otherwise, I like the position you were in in this hand. If he hadn't hit his draw you would've done well to get value for your set.

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