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Uncle_Buz
Four of a Kind
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 256
Location: Tampa (formerly Ann Arbor)
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 Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:51 pm Post subject: How to beat Live Loose 3-6 games |
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I just had a few incredably bad sessions. I'm in need of therapy.
At the casino it seems like the 3-6 games should be soft and easy. Lots of fish limping in with literally anything: Any A or K, any two cards >9, any 2 suited, any connectors. Nearly every flop seen by 5 to 8 players.
I'm embarrassed to admit that the only big pot I won today was when I played 3  5 on the button and rivered 3's full of J's.
It seemed that playing standard raising hands resulted in either a small pot where nobody flopped a big draw or getting sucked out on when four people all have odds to draw to the flush, multiple straights or seeking trips with bottom pair - and hitting it. Top Pair - Top Kicker is really weak against all the draws.
I mistakedly thought that playing good solid poker - raising with premium hands, playing very tight early, a little looser in late position and making the draws pay to draw against TPTK would win the money. I've been getting killed.
I'm starting to think that my strategy is better suited to games where the typical hand only has 2 or 3 players to the flop. If that is right, then what is the optimal strategy for loose games?
Any suggestions? |
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Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 7732
Location: Quitting smoking
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Pick up a copy of Small Stakes Hold 'em by Miller, Sklansky and Malmuth. |
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Uncle_Buz
Four of a Kind
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 256
Location: Tampa (formerly Ann Arbor)
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Riddim wrote: |
| Pick up a copy of Small Stakes Hold 'em by Miller, Sklansky and Malmuth. |
Been there, done that. That's how I learned to play. I probably need to review his suggestions on which hands to play from which positions and use a more disciplined approach. I'm sure it would improve my results. |
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IABoomer
Moderator
Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 4121
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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I might suggest that you're actually being too disciplined in a loose low limit live HE game.
I think the thing to consider is, big pairs and big connectors are going to lose some value, since you'll have more players competing and chasing to the river. The corollary to this is, small to mid pairs and mid connectors will probably increase in value since family pots will give you odds to run down straights, flushes, etc.
Somewhere I read that the average winning hand in HE is two pair. I think that somewhat assumes a small field of 2 or 3 players seeing a river. When 4-5 see the river, just by chance you're going to find bigger hands. |
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WolfLarsen1
High Card
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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sorry hit wrong button.
Is far as always having 5 to 8 seeing the flop I think your right to keep it tight up front, just keep in mind with those kind of possible odds coming after the flop you can really play some near-weak hands. If you don't hit big or get some really big draws toss it in and try to enjoy watching the huge pots those hands will win when they hit.
The only other advice I can think of is to know who the BS'ers who just can't see one check around are. When you hit top pair with a moderate kicker and you know that the better is just that (even if he does seem to have a magic river-wand), call him out. At a table of tight-aggresive players I really don't like the check-call at all, but in a game were someones always going to bet and someones always going to call, watch out for the one or two solid players and walk the dogs right to the bank.
good luck |
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griffinlord
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 2454
Location: The Great Plains of South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| Uncle_Buz wrote: |
| Riddim wrote: |
| Pick up a copy of Small Stakes Hold 'em by Miller, Sklansky and Malmuth. |
Been there, done that. That's how I learned to play. I probably need to review his suggestions on which hands to play from which positions and use a more disciplined approach. I'm sure it would improve my results. |
You are likely experiencing variability. The Miller et al approach has you pushing every small edge. While this is a winning strategy in the long run it will increase your variance.
If you get Lee Jones' book you'll win less but experience less variance. It is a trade off and probably worth it if you want to break your streak. Once you are comfortable back to Miller et al for additional training. |
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BOYNAMEDSUE
Moderator
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7581
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| Try Winning Low Limit Holdem, by Lee Jones. Geared towards no-foldem holdem. It's all about drawing to big hands. |
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craigo6x
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2731
Location: Cursing the relievers in the bullpen
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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BNS has it right-you are playing no fold em holdem. Reading a book isn't going to help you beat it. You will need two pair or better to win at showdown, and every hand will go to showdown.
The most important thing I found in Low limit hold- em is to play your position well. Only the best hands up front. in cutoff or button see cheap flops. If you hit your draws, take control by raising with position.
Bluffing goes out the window (unless heads up). |
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ridic x
Straight Flush
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 485
Location: At your tables stealin your moneyz
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Chino987
High Card
Joined: 08 Apr 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Spewing Chips at the Trop Pink Game
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:49 pm Post subject: some tips |
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| IABoomer wrote: |
I think the thing to consider is, big pairs and big connectors are going to lose some value, since you'll have more players competing and chasing to the river. The corollary to this is, small to mid pairs and mid connectors will probably increase in value since family pots will give you odds to run down straights, flushes, etc.
Somewhere I read that the average winning hand in HE is two pair. I think that somewhat assumes a small field of 2 or 3 players seeing a river. When 4-5 see the river, just by chance you're going to find bigger hands. |
This thinking is incorrect. Your big pairs and big connectors increase in value in these loose games. While you will not win with them as often, when you do win with them, the pot will be massive.
My guess is that although you are playing correctly preflop with your good hands, you are not playing optimally postflop. Specifically, you may not be protecting your vulnerable hands adequately (e.g. AK on a KJ6 flop) by using techniques like check raising or waiting until the turn to raise. You also may not be playing enough speculative hands like 87s that can flop draws. With these draws you also should be playing aggressively looking for ways to get as much money in the pot as possible.
In these types of games, most of your profit comes POSTFLOP, not preflop. |
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