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blkhwk67t · Full House Joined: 30 Dec 2005 Posts: 172

I'm not for sure if I missed a chance for bets here or not. My thoughts are in red.

FullTiltPoker Game #2022344403: Table Marlin - $0.25/$0.50 - Limit Hold'em - 12:31:45 ET - 2007/03/19
Seat 1: IBAlonieS ($10.65)
Seat 2: fallthyfamily ($15.25)
Seat 3: P_Iversen ($7.85)
Seat 4: blkhwk67t ($11.90)
Seat 5: WRSLOTS ($8.35)
Seat 6: Blacklegs22 ($31.55)
Seat 7: palleezp1aya ($19.45)
Seat 8: Default Error ($8.50)
Seat 9: ugotme2 ($10.45)
blkhwk67t posts the small blind of $0.10
WRSLOTS posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to blkhwk67t [Qh Qc]
Blacklegs22 folds
palleezp1aya folds
Default Error folds
ugotme2 folds
IBAlonieS raises to $0.50
fallthyfamily folds
P_Iversen calls $0.50
blkhwk67t raises to $0.75 I reraise in hopes of getting the pot heads up
WRSLOTS folds
IBAlonieS calls $0.25
P_Iversen calls $0.25
*** FLOP *** [9c 7h Kc]
Of course a over card plus the flush draw, I check and look to check/raise in the hopes of getting heads up.
blkhwk67t checks
IBAlonieS bets $0.25
P_Iversen folds
blkhwk67t calls $0.25
I just call here since its now heads up and that was the whole reason for my planned check/raise. Should I have check/raised anyway? I just figure I could play it safe and lose the min if he indeed have a K.
*** TURN *** [9c 7h Kc] [4d]
blkhwk67t checks
IBAlonieS bets $0.50
blkhwk67t calls $0.50
Again just check call here wanting to see the river for min loss if I am behind
*** RIVER *** [9c 7h Kc 4d] [7s]
blkhwk67t checks
IBAlonieS checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
IBAlonieS shows [Ac Tc] (a pair of Sevens)
blkhwk67t shows [Qh Qc] (two pair, Queens and Sevens)
blkhwk67t wins the pot ($3.80) with two pair, Queens and Sevens
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $4 | Rake $0.20
Board: [9c 7h Kc 4d 7s]
Seat 1: IBAlonieS showed [Ac Tc] and lost with a pair of Sevens
Seat 2: fallthyfamily didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: P_Iversen (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: blkhwk67t (small blind) showed [Qh Qc] and won ($3.80) with two pair, Queens and Sevens
Seat 5: WRSLOTS (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: Blacklegs22 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: palleezp1aya didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: Default Error didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: ugotme2 didn't bet (folded)

Ends up that I was good the whole time. I think that I should have went ahead and check raised the flop but I was scared that if he came back over the top of me w/ the 4th bet, I would have to call. Then when he bet on the turn I would probably have to fold. Any thoughts?

IABoomer · Moderator Joined: 29 Oct 2006 Posts: 3912

If it was me, I think I'd go ahead and check-call the flop like you did. Even if you pulled a check-raise, I still don't think you would have ended up getting heads up. After all, IBAlonieS bets, if P_Iversen calls and you check-raise, IBAlonieS is more than likely calling, and the odds are good enough for P_Iversen to call as well. He'd be calling 1 bet twice instead of 2 bets cold.

I think the turn is a good place to check-raise. If he's got a K he'll probably 3-bet to protect against the flush draw. If he doesn't have the K, he's probably just calling on the draw. You're going to invest 2 bets into this hand regardless (one on the turn, one on the river). Why not put them in on the turn? You'll know where you stand and if the river bricks, you can actually lead and possibly earn one more bet if he's got 2nd pair with a busted 4-flush.

drone540 · Full House Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 165

I would have bet after seeing the river.
Though he probably would have folded anyway... so it most likely wouldn't have given you any more than that.

Might be better to re-raise a little higher pre-flop... like 2X or 3X of the raise.

IABoomer · Moderator Joined: 29 Oct 2006 Posts: 3912

GripHoldOn · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:54 pm Post subject:

I would have raised on the flop, to try to determine whether I'm up against a king. If he three-bets, I'm likely behind, and I'll either call down the rest of the way or get off the QQ depending on the opponent. If he just calls my raise, I would figure that I have the best hand and that I'm up against perhaps a smaller pair or a draw. I'd lead out on the turn, even if a club came, again to see where I'm at.

fire_eyes_2k · Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:50 pm Post subject:

Am I the only one that thinks a check/raise is a horrible play here? It just looks like weakness to me and if I were your opponent I would reraise with just about anything. I'd lead the flop, then if raised I'd probably check/call down. I only like the use of the check/raise when you're ahead in a hand as it's a move which gives you very little information and can give a lot to your opponent.

Just my 2c, we need deadmoney back!

honkythunder · Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:27 pm Post subject:

I agree that the planned check/raise on the flop was not a good idea. The check/raise on the flop is more effective if the preflop aggressor is on your right so that it checks to the player on your right. You then raise to make it two bets to all the checkers on your left. In this case YOU are the preflop aggressor. Essentially your check gave all the other opponents a chance at a free card and you've reduced your ability to get a read on them.

In your particular case this probably didn't matter because it looks like you were up against a hybrid-donk. Hybrid-donks (in case you didn't know - and you shouldn't know because I just made the term up a few weeks ago) will call any bets to them and will ALWAYS bet if checked to them. Case-in-point, you gave him two free chances to make his draw but he chose to bet out anyway even though your 3-bet preflop should have told him you have a real hand.

bigwheell · Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:27 am Post subject:

I think you played the hand poorly...I think you telegraphed your underpair with your flop check and let the hand get to the river when you would have probably won it with a flop bet.

I would have led the flop betting, you were the last person to raise, you had control of the hand, you should bet the flop in this situation 95% of the time(IMHO). In this situation, I would also 3-bet the flop most of the time with your hand if someone gives your C-bet any action. Aggression would have won you this hand much earlier.

Here are my thoughts...

Ibolonie put you on an underpair to the flopped K after your flop check and tried to push you off the hand by representing an AK, he was the first to show Aggression in the hand so he could have had AK.

I would have played Ibolonies hand the same way and hoped that you would have given up with your obvious underpair to the K on the board....

You gave up your preflop aggression and turned into a bit of a calling station in this hand. I can't fault him for betting it to the river with nothing. He had two ways to win the hand, He could have pushed you off your underpair, or he could have outdrawn you.

He lost the hand, but now he has some valuable info on you for similar situations in the future.

Honkey,

Those Hybrid-Donks are also known as Sponges....Another forum that I frequent has quite a bit of info about the typical sponge players tendancies...

From what has been said, many people(middle stakes players) have a hard time dealing with sponges at their tables and will just find another table. A sponge is willing to absorb the PF and Flop betting and come alive on the Turn/River to take hands away from the early aggressors.

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