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Foxy_Boxer
Straight
Joined: 05 Jan 2007
Posts: 105
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 Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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I'm no expert, but it seems like EVERYONE posting here is missing SOMETHING. I don't want to elaborate or explain what I think is right, I just wanna say it's like the blind leading the blind...so people should probably take all this advice with a grain of salt haha.
Last edited by Foxy_Boxer on Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Big Slick x13x
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Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 6824
Location: The U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:16 am Post subject: |
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[quote="asfispimp"]
| Big Slick x13x wrote: |
| PokerAA wrote: |
bad already... NEVER call if u have a face card or pair to start off unless the other guy has a 9 or higher showing but yea, i would call 3 cards that are 8 or under and also something like an A29 if no one raises
you are playing TOO tight. You're telling me if you bring in with a Q showing and have A2 down and it folds around to the person immediately to your right you're folding to a completion, every time. When you start incorporating absolutes into your poker game you're heading in the wrong direction
no youre not, youre playing when you have a disadvantage. Who cares about the A2, you have a Q. why would you play in a pot when youre always going to be one card behind?
You don't know you're one card behind and this was geared toward tournament situations where people are very likely to be stealing. By taking a stand it puts the thought in their mind that you'll defend and they may tighten up. Also you could have the best hand. Being one card behind on third street isn't that big of a deal and you're getting a decent price to play a heads up pot. And if you're as confident in your heads up game as you claim to be that should be an ideal situation.
i wouldnt... i would raise with 3 cards that are 6 or lower or A27, A37, or 237... (and what i learned from asfis), never re-raise on 3rd unless your opponent has a 9 or higher showing
Terrible advice about never re-raising third. Say your opponent completes with a 6 showing, you have A24, are you going to re-raise, push the bring in out, take control of the hand, or play it passively and take away one of your ways to win the pot?
thats terrible advice slick, why would you reraise on such a marginal edge? If he has 3 to a 6 or 3 to a 7, why would you reraise when you can just brick it out. Its better to play passively until you have a made hand, so you can lose the least when you brick.
Razz is a game of marginal edges and I like to push every edge I can. You can lose the least by going passive but you also win the least.
also, once u hit a second brick, it is almost always time to fold and the last part is definitely true
This last bit is marginal. A lot of times if you have a strong draw to go with your two bricks going into 7th street you are only a 2:1 underdog and you're getting much better then 2:1 on your money. In which case it is almost always right to call.
Are you stupid? youre gonna call down with 2 bricks on 5th?
Please read what I wrote...I said GOING TO 7TH STREET. That means we are on 6th street with 2 bricks not 5th. I would fold on 5th with two bricks unless my bricks are a)lower then my opponents bricks, b) low pairs to my hole cards.
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Now you can apologize for the stupid comment when it was you who doesn't know how to read. |
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asfispimp
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 1770
Location: vegas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:31 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Big Slick x13x"]
| asfispimp wrote: |
| Big Slick x13x wrote: |
| PokerAA wrote: |
bad already... NEVER call if u have a face card or pair to start off unless the other guy has a 9 or higher showing but yea, i would call 3 cards that are 8 or under and also something like an A29 if no one raises
you are playing TOO tight. You're telling me if you bring in with a Q showing and have A2 down and it folds around to the person immediately to your right you're folding to a completion, every time. When you start incorporating absolutes into your poker game you're heading in the wrong direction
no youre not, youre playing when you have a disadvantage. Who cares about the A2, you have a Q. why would you play in a pot when youre always going to be one card behind?
You don't know you're one card behind and this was geared toward tournament situations where people are very likely to be stealing. By taking a stand it puts the thought in their mind that you'll defend and they may tighten up. Also you could have the best hand. Being one card behind on third street isn't that big of a deal and you're getting a decent price to play a heads up pot. And if you're as confident in your heads up game as you claim to be that should be an ideal situation.
I play exactly like dumwaldo and I usually assume the guy completing has a decent hand, if not a good one. And my ideal situation is not being one card behind. I think you should specify that youre talking about mtts, because I thought you were just talking about razz in general.
i wouldnt... i would raise with 3 cards that are 6 or lower or A27, A37, or 237... (and what i learned from asfis), never re-raise on 3rd unless your opponent has a 9 or higher showing
Terrible advice about never re-raising third. Say your opponent completes with a 6 showing, you have A24, are you going to re-raise, push the bring in out, take control of the hand, or play it passively and take away one of your ways to win the pot?
thats terrible advice slick, why would you reraise on such a marginal edge? If he has 3 to a 6 or 3 to a 7, why would you reraise when you can just brick it out. Its better to play passively until you have a made hand, so you can lose the least when you brick.
Razz is a game of marginal edges and I like to push every edge I can. You can lose the least by going passive but you also win the least.
Whats wrong with winning the least? On 5th if you have the same mindset of winning as me, only showing down with the best, the least that means youre going to win at least the least if you stay in the pot. If on 5th youre going to be winning the least if you showdown, theres always the possiblity that youre going to win more. However if you lose the least and know youre going to only lose the least, then you get away with losing the least, but being able to win the the least at least. If that made any sense lol.
also, once u hit a second brick, it is almost always time to fold and the last part is definitely true
This last bit is marginal. A lot of times if you have a strong draw to go with your two bricks going into 7th street you are only a 2:1 underdog and you're getting much better then 2:1 on your money. In which case it is almost always right to call.
Are you stupid? youre gonna call down with 2 bricks on 5th?
Please read what I wrote...I said GOING TO 7TH STREET. That means we are on 6th street with 2 bricks not 5th. I would fold on 5th with two bricks unless my bricks are a)lower then my opponents bricks, b) low pairs to my hole cards.
oh nvmd then
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Now you can apologize for the stupid comment when it was you who doesn't know how to read. |
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dumwaldo
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 1656
Location: look to the stars
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:19 am Post subject: |
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Worst quoting ever 
Its gonna take me 2 days before I can figure out who is saying what in here. |
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Big Slick x13x
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Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 6824
Location: The U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Yea...my bad, sorta. All the stuff in Bold up there is mine and the following two paragraphs that I forgot to bold...
Razz is a game of marginal edges and I like to push every edge I can. You can lose the least by going passive but you also win the least.
Please read what I wrote...I said GOING TO 7TH STREET. That means we are on 6th street with 2 bricks not 5th. I would fold on 5th with two bricks unless my bricks are a)lower then my opponents bricks, b) low pairs to my hole cards. |
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Jason Yates
Four of a Kind
Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 339
Location: Prior Lake
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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I have noticed in other 7-card poker games I have played that I have never seen the large amounts of straights, flushes or full boats like I have seen in Razz. And I am talking about just the hands that I am dealt.
I play Razz everynight. I even venture into the Razz freeroll available to everyone at 8pm (central time) too. I cannot tell you how many times I have caught these combinations. And I always catch myself saying, "Wish I was playing Stud HI or NLHE right now". Heck you even notice it in HORSE games. The second you switch from Razz to Stud, trying to get a full boat is like trying to win a lottery.
I am convincing myself that online poker is just like a slot machine. Each poker game has certain odds set accordingly. Human interaction has a lot to do with the outcome of each hand in the case of winning or losing because in every poker game there are cards you cannot see. But as you all know your whole cards and what comes on the board are computer generated. Odds that are controlled by simple programming.
Think about it. |
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Big Slick x13x
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Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 6824
Location: The U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Jason Yates wrote: |
Think about it. |
Ok...now what? If you're getting a lot of full houses you need to work on reading the board before you play, if you don't see any of your cards up then you are more likely to pair which leads to full houses....straights and flushes don't even count so I don't even pay attention to them during razz.
Your post does seem like a "riggat" post. Do I need a tinfoil hat for this? |
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Jason Yates
Four of a Kind
Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 339
Location: Prior Lake
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Nope not a Riggat! post. Just a funny coincidence. If someone did want to post the pic with the fat guy and a tin foil hat I would be very amused. |
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fozzy71
High Card
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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PokerAA wrote -
"also, once u hit a second brick, it is almost always time to fold and the last part is definitely true
This last bit is marginal. A lot of times if you have a strong draw to go with your two bricks going into 7th street you are only a 2:1 underdog and you're getting much better then 2:1 on your money. In which case it is almost always right to call."
If You Have 3 - 2 - A - Q - K :
The probability that the final strength of your hand after seven cards will be...
Eight-High - 14.80% - 5.76 to 1 against
Seven-High - 8.88% - 10.3 to 1 against
Six-High - 4.44% - 21.5 to 1 against
taken from: http://www.razzpokerstrategy.com/Odds.htm
Would u mind elaborating on where u got your odds from?? 
See u at the tables. 
PS - How many other people wish that they had Half-Pot Limit Razz??? Everybody email full tilt requesting it (and request they add Badugi while u are at it  ) |
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Big Slick x13x
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Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 6824
Location: The U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| fozzy71 wrote: |
Would u mind elaborating on where u got your odds from??
See u at the tables. |
KQ432A
vs
876322
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=2485777
I guess the size of the pot by this time wouldn't nearly be 3 BBs. I mean if you start with 4 to a wheel and hit a couple bricks and think your opponent has a rough 8 you should check all the way to 6th so you don't have odds to call.
Remember I said on 6th going to 7th WITH A GOOD DRAW. You have it as 5th needing two cards to win. Damn I wish people would learn to read before trying to counter what I said.
Edit: I went back and looked at the website you posted and found some interesting stuff. Not only did you mis read my post but you mis read their website as well.
It showed the odds against you hitting those hands, not against you out drawing your opponent. If you make an 8 on 7th but your opponent hits an A on 7 then you still lose, the odds calculator that I used factors that in as well. Now assuming you hit an 8 or better on 7th and it's going to be good it shows that you are 10.5:1 to hit an 8 and 10.5:1 to hit a 7..etc to 5. So 10.5:4 =>2.625:1 to improve because there are 4 possibilities(8,7,6,5). So please tell me where I'm wrong.
| razzpokerstrategy.com/odds wrote: |
NOTE: This chart assumes no knowledge of exposed cards in other hands. |
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fozzy71
High Card
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| I dont know if i read it wrong or quoted it wrong - but one thing is sure. I wont ever post another reply or new topic here again. You forum rats enjoy. I am gonna smoke a fatty and play cards - instead of talkin bout it |
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PokerAA
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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guess i forgot to say that u almost always have to fold your second brick unless the other player also hits a brick...
because if he is not showing a brick and shows like A347 and u even have something as good as A235KQ, u should fold... and anyway, he has to be showing some pretty just marginal/bad cards for u to call, like __ 68KA when u are holding A2 34KQ, unless u wanna be drawing to like a 4-8 outer. |
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WARDROPS
High Card
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:14 am Post subject: |
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If I have called on 5th when he is showing an A34 then I am going to be calling 6th when he hits a 7. It's incorrect to fold in your example PokerAA.
Just taking out of the scenario dead cards for a minute player reads and what not, he may easily have paired, have an 8 in the hole or he may have a 76 so catching a 4, 7 or 6 wins and possibly an 8 if he has an 87 made with a pair.
Anyway without getting bogged down, generally if you call an A34 on 5th then you have to call 6th. |
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ftn_chris
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 1202
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| WARDROPS wrote: |
If I have called on 5th when he is showing an A34 then I am going to be calling 6th when he hits a 7. It's incorrect to fold in your example PokerAA.
Just taking out of the scenario dead cards for a minute player reads and what not, he may easily have paired, have an 8 in the hole or he may have a 76 so catching a 4, 7 or 6 wins and possibly an 8 if he has an 87 made with a pair.
Anyway without getting bogged down, generally if you call an A34 on 5th then you have to call 6th. |
...if you hit. |
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captain c-dogg
High Card
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Anybody that needs help with their razz game |
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| Foxy_Boxer wrote: |
| asfispimp wrote: |
| Im going to be playing alot of razz from now on, and if anyone needs help on their razz game, Id be willing to explain why I do things while I play |
I hope by that you don't mean you'll be explaining things at the table, to the players at the table, cuz I think that's kinda bad etiquette. Maybe you want people to learn, but others might be there to make money, so you shouldn't be educating players while the game is going on.
Now, if you meant you'd be willing to explain stuff over the phone or via AIM to an observer while you play, I see nothing wrong with that. (Though you might run the risk of that player telling another player at the table what your hand is -- if they happen to want to run that scam -- so I'd hope it's someone you can trust.) |
man shut up. it's online. if you are really gambling that much money where someone talking is gunna affect your play, try playing live. this is an online fantasy poker site. its all action generator. chat has no affect on hands what so ever.
i just played a $1 SNG razz game for thrills. 3 people thought it was stud. 2 of us were yelling it's not stud, think any of em even picked that up?
bad etiquette is you whining about a chat box on a msg board. turn the chat off and quit crying
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