Online Poker Forum at Full Tilt Poker

springb0ks · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:49 am Post subject: Building a bankroll at low limits

Hi all. I was wondering if there are any players out there who have successfully used micro limit sit n go's and cash games to build up a very large bankroll to play at the higher limits. I mainly play $2.50 and $5 sng's, and was wondering if it is wise to use both cash games and sng's to build a bankroll, and if anyone here has done it as well?

Is it possible to play 5cent/10cent cash games online, coupled with $2.50, and $5 sng's to build up a nice sized bankroll to about $500-$1000?

If someone has acheived this using these micro-limits i have discussed above, i would like to know how they went about it, and if they have any tips they could share. Also, if they could inform me if they used both cash games and sng's.

Thanks guys.

mathman1115 · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:41 am Post subject:

I was able to do so playing a combination of many things. I mainly played NL and limit holdem cash games, but mixed in various Sngs, and even dabbled in Omaha and Stud cash games. I also play occasional MTT tournaments.

SngS and MTTs buy ins range from $1 to $26 (tokens)
Cash games include anything from 25/50 cent to 1/2 limit, and $10 to $50 NL buyins.

I was fortunate enough that i could initially deposit $500. I have been able to more than quadruple it in just a little under two years.

I think they keys were the following:

Discipline - you have to be patient, not step out of your limits, and not tilt. I had these issues when i first played online, but was able to overcome them and (luckily) break even during this time period. I had to learn the hard way before i could control myself.

Variety - To me, building a bankroll playing the same thing every day just gets boring, and it feels like a grind. I don't play poker to grind. I play to win, yes, but i also play for enjoyment and relaxation. Play a variety of things, including cash games, Sngs, and MTTs. Play different games too. that way when you are having a bad stretch and one thing, you can try and forget about it by playing something else.

Statistics - Record each session/tourny you play, and include wins/losses, hands played, game, etc. Keep track of everything you do. When you win at something and see it on paper, it feels good and gives you confidence. When you are losing, you become motivated to get into the positive. Be honest in your statistics, they can tell you a lot.

Bonus - Playing on a first time or redeposit bonus is very key (or rakeback). These are great roll builders. I would say 60% or maybe even a little more of my profits come from bonuses. Most above average players just barely beat the game, but getting that bonus money back increases your profits greatly. Even if you break even in the game, you are still winning with bonuses! Sure, bonuses are slowly earned at low limits, but an extra 10 or 20 bucks in your account every 4 or 5 days makes a big difference!

muck luck · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:59 am Post subject:

I deposited 50 bucks on UB about a year ago and have made about 5,000 total on mostly sit n go's. I don't like cash games and find it very easy tilt of hard earned money in a short amount of time. Lately I have been smashing the 10 and 20 dollar buy in omaha hi and omaha hi low sit n go's due to the fact very few people know the game that well. Find whatever fits u and stick with it. The post before this was somewhat funny to me, alot of players are so afraid to go broke that they play way below their bankroll and don't really have a shot at moving up quickly without a mtt miracle. Take some shots and don't act like your roll is make or break. gl

KGBlovesOreos · Moderator Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 5313 Location: VA

Is it possible to play 5cent/10cent cash games online, coupled with $2.50, and $5 sng's to build up a nice sized bankroll to about $500-$1000?

If someone has acheived this using these micro-limits i have discussed above, i would like to know how they went about it, and if they have any tips they could share. Also, if they could inform me if they used both cash games and sng's.

I don't exactly have anything to add, for I think everything in mathman's post covered everything I was going to say, but I do want to reiterate that it is indeed possible.

I started playing $5 SNG's back in January '06 with just a bankroll of $190. Following the 30 buy-in (including rake) SNG bankroll method, I hit the $1k mark in June. I made my way through the $5, $10, $20, and $30 SNGs.

Occasionally I did take shots, using tokens at the $75 Tier Three SNGs or moving up one level for a few SNGs. Taking these shots are good for you, for I feel that they not only give you a feel for what the next level is like, but they also keep you going. Grinding it out at one limit can be tedious at times, so moving up for a few SNGs will give you that adrenaline boost you could use to become "hungry" once again.

Overall, the whole process was very demanding on my mind, as variance had me by my nuts numerous times, but if you stay patient, disciplined, and composed (again, all of this is in mathman's post), you will make it. It won't be easy, but once you reach there, it is very rewarding. Smile

honkythunder · Forum Drama Llama imo Joined: 21 Jan 2006 Posts: 1068

If there were a 'Post Hall of Fame' I would nominate Mathman's post on this subject - just awesome. Thanks Mathman.

USFDoh · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:20 pm Post subject:

I agree, nice post mathman. I was relieved to hear the part about rakeback/bonus being a good part of winnings. Over half of my increase in bankroll is the bonus and I was worried it was an anomaly.

HuJwang · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:01 pm Post subject:

yes, you can build up a roll, but it requires a lot of patience. you will take a lot of bad beats, and lose to a lot of ridiculous hands. however, you will also win against a lot of ridiculous hands.

i started with an $85 deposit on FTP. i played .05/.10, didn't really know what i was doing, and went down to about $50 on my first day. so i decided to move to pokerstars to play their super-low limit games (.01/.02). after a month or so of playing the ultra-micros, i was up to around $200, and felt confident enough to return to FTP. i played $5 sng's and .25/.50 limit games, and eventually moved up to playing $10 sng's and .10/.25 no limit (with the occaisional .50/1 limit). so after a total of about 6 months, i'm sitting on a roll of $630. it's not a huge roll but i'm proud of it. i'm thinking i'm going to start taking shots at the $20 sng's and $1/$2 limit games soon, and maybe .25/.50 cap no limit.

so yeah. playing a variety of games definitely helps, since you can figure out which game best suits you. personally i prefer single-table no limit SNG's, because i haven't go the patience for large tourneys and i don't seem to fare all that well in ring games. you can also figure out if you prefer no limit or limit, holdem or omaha, or any other game.

also, read books. egotistic players think they're good enough to learn the game on their own, but they are almost always wrong. it's important to know a lot of the theory behind playing poker if you want to be a consistent winner.

Kos13 · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject:

Mathman's post is gold...I just want to add that I do think a mix of sit and go's and ring games is the way to go. You get good experience playing both, and it gives you a little variety at times. I started with $50 on FTP, and on my first night, I dropped down under $4. From that $4, I built a nice bankroll playing mostly ring games, and I was up to about $300 in a few months playing .10/.25. I then moved on to $10 sit and go's, and I grinded my way to about $750. I've since moved on to other sites (I'm a bonus whore), and I've been able to grind my way up to a roll of about $2,000 with minimal play above .25/.50 or $10 sit and go's.

I would say that, though I consider myself more of a tournament player, I probably made close to 75% of my roll through ring games. Though some will preach against this, I used to sit at .10/.25 or .25/.50 with about 40 BB, play tight, double up, then find a new table. It kept the risk factor low because I never had more than 50 BB in play at once, and since I don't consider myself a gambler, this was very nice.

GripHoldOn · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:50 pm Post subject:

Good advice from mathman and others here; just thought I'd add my take:

springb0ks, if you're playing strictly to build your bankroll, you probably DON'T want to be playing both cash games and SNGs. I say this because you are probably better at one than you are at the other, and it makes sense to stick to the one you are best at.

Abiding by mathman's advice though, if playing both brands of poker helps you maintain your discipline, then in that case it's ok. I'm not saying that it's impossible to profit playing both games, actually, I am a counterexample to that. But if you are struggling to come out ahead or you are worried that you could go broke, stick to your best stuff.

jongreenway · Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:17 am Post subject:

Yes. very possible. Just DONT TILT. I tilted about 4 buy ins the other day and I'm still pissed at myself for it.

Start with $50 and you can turn it into $10,000 if you are a good player. Just be sure you are good enough and don't blame it on bad luck if you can't do it.

Ferguson turned $1 into $10,000 and is working on $0 to $10,000 so just goes to show you. Just need the skill.

springb0ks · Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:22 am Post subject:

Thanks all for the great replies.

The problem for me, is that i guess the bankroll rules are so strict. I mean isn't it something like you need to have 300 * the buy in for cash games in order to play that limit? Surely it is possibly to make or break these rules at the lower limits. I know you will need a lot to play 0.50 or $1 levels, as well as $1 and $2 levels, but at what decent size roll could i have, before deciding to take a shot at those levels?

If i don't succeed, i won't lost much sleep over it, as i am happy to deposit again, but i am happy to take some risks in order to get where i want.

Tiera Starr · Message Board Junkie Joined: 01 Mar 2006 Posts: 1827

Well to try a shot at a higher level, just make sure what is left over is enough for your current level.

springb0ks · Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:52 am Post subject:

Thanks, that sounds good. I will ensure i have enough left over to last the current level.

I was wondering, which is the best cash game book out there for really low limits, such as the low limit online books?

I have supersystem2, but looking for a book, that deals with no limit holdem, but at lower limits.

Thanks

sockerkid008 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Posts: 1174

Yes the key to building a bankroll with a small BR requires lots and lots and lots of patience lol. I started off with $5 got it up to about $20 then lost it. Gave my bud another $5 and lost it. But stuck to the small SNG. Eventually though I got it up and going because starting with a small BR pretty much means you cant make any mistakes but I have managed to Turn that second $5 into a substantial amount of money. Please stay away from cash games unless you think you really wanna do it. I would like to say SNG and MTT are the way to go even though it takes much time. SNG dont involve a lot of tilt factor like the cash games. So now im ready to get critizced because when ever I make a post someone always manages to make a statement saying I did so and so wrong or your a bad player

BillZ23 · Pair Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 43

As far as the advice "stick to what you're good at" concerning ring games or SnG or MTT....I wish I had taken this advice. I win enough at MTT and SnG to make a profit but ring games have killed my bankroll.

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