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honkythunder
Forum Drama Llama imo
Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 1131
Location: The Sticks
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 Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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In regards to the OP... I check the flop and hope it checks to late position. If someone in late position bets - then I raise so as to send two bets to all the others who originally checked.
If anything other than that occurs - I fold if I'm playing smart and I call down to the riv if I'm playing 'under the influence'.
In the case of playing 'under the influence' I then follow up my river call with some witty and spirited chat. |
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Zophar
Moderator
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 3505
Location: East Coast
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorry DM, I should have prefaced it with a *semi-hijack. It was more in follow up to your link. I don't like it here either. With the number of players in the pot, there are easily 4 hands(the 3 sets and the 2pr.) that are way ahead, not to mention, several draws. This is definitely a check/fold, check/call situation. |
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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 5861
Location: Halifax, NS
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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heh well i wasn't really considering calling all that seriously, this hand was mainly just posted for the humour factor. but thanks for the comments, i can definitely see why a bet there is not necessarily a good idea in limit, i'm mainly a no limit player trying to learn a different game.
HuJwang folds
turn007 folds
p65dunc raises to $2
BigKnockers34 calls $1
princerickri calls $1
grtflone2 calls $0.50
*** TURN *** [Td Js 4h] [3d]
p65dunc bets $1
BigKnockers34 calls $1
princerickri calls $1
grtflone2 calls $1
*** RIVER *** [Td Js 4h 3d] [6c]
p65dunc bets $1
BigKnockers34 folds
princerickri folds
grtflone2 calls $0.95, and is all in
Uncalled bet of $0.05 returned to p65dunc
*** SHOW DOWN ***
p65dunc shows [Kh Jd] (a pair of Jacks)
grtflone2 shows [Ks Jc] (a pair of Jacks)
p65dunc ties for the pot ($8.95) with a pair of Jacks
grtflone2 ties for the pot ($8.95) with a pair of Jacks
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $18.40 | Rake $0.50
Board: [Td Js 4h 3d 6c]
Seat 1: turn007 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: IMshakey1 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: p65dunc showed [Kh Jd] and won ($8.95) with a pair of Jacks
Seat 4: BigKnockers34 folded on the River
Seat 5: princerickri folded on the River
Seat 6: Priya didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: Hagar1254 folded on the Flop
Seat 8: grtflone2 (button) showed [Ks Jc] and won ($8.95) with a pair of Jacks
Seat 9: HuJwang (small blind) folded on the Flop |
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Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 7312
Location: Quitting smoking
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| fire_eyes_2k wrote: |
| I think the bottom line is that when there are 5 or more to a flop, top pair is very rarely good enough, and you will either win a little or lose a lot if you proceed with it. |
I strongly disagree with this. Other people have mostly covered the other things in this thread that I was going to comment on, but I didn't see a direct response to this. As long as you're decent at reading hands, I think you're giving up a ton of money by routinely check-folding top pair just because there are a lot of players taking the flop with you. |
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bigwheell
Royal Flush
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 830
Location: North Dakota
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Riddim wrote: |
| fire_eyes_2k wrote: |
| I think the bottom line is that when there are 5 or more to a flop, top pair is very rarely good enough, and you will either win a little or lose a lot if you proceed with it. |
I strongly disagree with this. Other people have mostly covered the other things in this thread that I was going to comment on, but I didn't see a direct response to this. As long as you're decent at reading hands, I think you're giving up a ton of money by routinely check-folding top pair just because there are a lot of players taking the flop with you. |
In this situation though, the op led out with a bet and it was then raised and reraised before it got back to him...Even though he posted the HH already, I do not see how he could think he still had a shot at the pot...maybe I play too tight, but I would have let the hand go rather than cold call two bets with a medium strenght hand that is so easily dominated |
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Riddim
Moderator
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 7312
Location: Quitting smoking
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| bigwheell wrote: |
| In this situation though, the op led out with a bet and it was then raised and reraised before it got back to him...Even though he posted the HH already, I do not see how he could think he still had a shot at the pot...maybe I play too tight, but I would have let the hand go rather than cold call two bets with a medium strenght hand that is so easily dominated |
Yeah, this situation is an obvious fold. I guess I forgot to clarify my thoughts on that at the end just in case. It just seemed to me that Fire's statement was way more general than that and advocated checking intending to fold in hands like this. |
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Zophar
Moderator
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 3505
Location: East Coast
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Riddim wrote: |
| fire_eyes_2k wrote: |
| I think the bottom line is that when there are 5 or more to a flop, top pair is very rarely good enough, and you will either win a little or lose a lot if you proceed with it. |
I strongly disagree with this. Other people have mostly covered the other things in this thread that I was going to comment on, but I didn't see a direct response to this. As long as you're decent at reading hands, I think you're giving up a ton of money by routinely check-folding top pair just because there are a lot of players taking the flop with you. |
I would agree and disagree with you on this one Riddim. Granted, it's not necessarily an insta fold, but caution should be taken with proceeding. As you know, when so many players are active in a hand, the requirements for an average winning hand do increase. I think that was more of Fire's point. Reading hands gets very difficult when you are against 5 limpers because the only info you are starting with is that no one preflop is very strong. In Hu's case, he can probably figure that he's not beat by AJ, but aside from that, strictly on the flop, there's alot he could be facing. A check call would have been the better route. (EDIT-the more I thought about this statement and entire response for that matter, after finishing the post, the more I realized how wrong I was. Realistically the 2 likely hands at this point that can beat him are 10J and 44. 1010 and JJ would have raised, unless they are utterly passive players. The big draws that could've raised postflop were KQ and Q9. The more I consider it, his leading out really wasn't a donk bet, he was betting the likely best hand! I think a reraise wouldn't have been that unrealistic either.). |
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fire_eyes_2k
The Burn Card
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 3332
Location: Old York
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Riddim wrote: |
| fire_eyes_2k wrote: |
| I think the bottom line is that when there are 5 or more to a flop, top pair is very rarely good enough, and you will either win a little or lose a lot if you proceed with it. |
I strongly disagree with this. Other people have mostly covered the other things in this thread that I was going to comment on, but I didn't see a direct response to this. As long as you're decent at reading hands, I think you're giving up a ton of money by routinely check-folding top pair just because there are a lot of players taking the flop with you. |
Nobody responds to my posts Riddim, I pride myself on their uselessness so nobody pays attention.
But I don't think you can be certain of any reads at the .5/1 or 1/2 level, and I don't usually like to place too much confidence in them until action on the turn. I've seen people get funky with J4 soooted and a lot worse then hit the flop with 2pair or trips. I agree with Z that JT and 44 are the main concerns in this example, but you can't rule out the plain stupid, and it works against you as well as for you. Typically if 6 limp to see a flop, I would expect 2 of them to have a PP, at least one to have A-rag, one to have some connectors, and chances are when I hit the flop with TPGK, I won't be the only one, and my opponents are either drawing to or already have a monster. When I say monster I mean flopped set or OESD, flushes are easy to spot |
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dakuwanga
Two Pair
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| At the levels you're talking about "reading" doesn't even matter. I suggest just bet the hell out of your good hands and hope that Retardo doesn't suck out on the River! |
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