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dodge these
Straight Flush
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 457
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 Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:56 pm Post subject: Questins from transitioning players |
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Saw there was a post on tips for new omaha players but also had a coupel fo specific questions and wanted to start a thread where we can address that.
I hear even top set is just a drawing hand and there are time you shold fold, but assuming no possible flopped str8 or flush when should you fold top set? Coming from hold'em I can't see folding when you have the current nuts and redraws to a boat shoudl he hit. On a related note, what if you flop top set or 3 pair with the nut flush draw but put him on the flpped nut str8?
Second how big a favorite is AAxx suited against some of the other stronger hands. Cause I still tend to push them preflop like in holdem especially is double suited and when I get all in preflop I win maybe a quarter of the time or less, though the sample of hands is not that big yet, only a few dozen situations like this have come up, and I have lost 2/3 of my pf ai in nlhe for an entire month with AA once!
I also heard that this game is much more high variance so i am wondering what kind of br swings are normal and how many buyins one shoudl have to play comfiortably in plo. It is quite common to see $100+ games going at the 1/2PL level each day whereas that is rare in 1/2 NL, and only become a daily occurence at the 2/4 level.
I'm sure I'll think of more questions and hopefully so will others, but untill then hope this generates a good discussion. |
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Kloaked Spirit
Royal Flush
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 869
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: Questins from transitioning players |
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| dodge these wrote: |
| I hear even top set is just a drawing hand and there are time you shold fold, but assuming no possible flopped str8 or flush when should you fold top set? Coming from hold'em I can't see folding when you have the current nuts and redraws to a boat shoudl he hit. On a related note, what if you flop top set or 3 pair with the nut flush draw but put him on the flpped nut str8? |
There are times when a monster draw would be a favorite over the current nuts. The key word here is monster. For example, if I have a 20 out draw, I'm a coinflip to your top set. Now if I add a flush draw to that, I quickly become a good favorite, yet you have the "nuts."
Now, the more realistic reason why you might fold the nuts is because you're being freerolled on. For example, say the flop is TJQ and you have AK. You currently have the nuts. However before it even gets to you you've seen a pot bet, re-raise, and another re-raise pot. Seriously think twice before tagging along. Sure, you may have the nuts. However, most likely someone else will have AK with you but they may have a flush draw as well, or something like JJ so they can boat up. In this case you really need to fold. The best you can do is split, and basically you're giving the person a shot at taking your stack risk free.
Now, how often do you feel you should be folding this? At the low levels, almost never in cases where you're up against a monster draw. With good reads you may be able to figure out if you're being freerolled on or not.
| dodge these wrote: |
| Second how big a favorite is AAxx suited against some of the other stronger hands. Cause I still tend to push them preflop like in holdem especially is double suited and when I get all in preflop I win maybe a quarter of the time or less, though the sample of hands is not that big yet, only a few dozen situations like this have come up, and I have lost 2/3 of my pf ai in nlhe for an entire month with AA once! |
AAxx ds is a favorite over any other non AAxx ds hand. So heads up if you did get it all in preflop, you did get it all in with the best of it. However, unlike Hold'Em, it's not a huge favorite. In some cases it may be something like a 2:1 favorite. It would be as if you went all in with AK and got called by 67. Of course, this is when it's double suited only. There are cases where AAxx with no suits is actually a dog to some hands like QJT9 ds.
| dodge these wrote: |
| I also heard that this game is much more high variance so i am wondering what kind of br swings are normal and how many buyins one shoudl have to play comfiortably in plo. It is quite common to see $100+ games going at the 1/2PL level each day whereas that is rare in 1/2 NL, and only become a daily occurence at the 2/4 level. |
Everything I've heard from 2+2 tends to support the 30, 50, 100 rule. 30 buyins to take a shot at that level. 50 and you should be ok. 100 if you plan on playing at that level professionally. If you can afford to play just on a recreational level you can probably get away with 30 buyins. Swings are huge because Omaha is much more draw oriented. 6-max games are even worse. I can state that I've dropped 15 buyins without even thinking twice about it. It's just how variance will treat you when you're in a lot of the 60/40 situations. |
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ThoroughBread09
Pair
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 33
Location: The D
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| in my opinon omaha takes alot more time to think about hands. in omaha everytime u play a hand (even with the nuts) u gotta think about ur stack, how someone has been playing, and the entire situation of the hand. but i tend to play omaha whenever i can b/c u get alot more action. U do often to get alot more bad beats, a few weeks ago in a 2/4 PL cash game i hit quad 4's on the turn and got 1 outered by a str8 flush, i was surprised but not stunned that it hit, b/c in a full table the odds against that are big but not astronomical like in holdem |
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dodge these
Straight Flush
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 457
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| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the replies. I play AA unsuited very cautiosly by only limping and calling standard raises in position but don't usualy even raise with it. I might push hard if it is single suited with some other nice cards like JT. Is that a good approach? What about double paired like AAKK? Also, playing shorthanded (6 or less) how hard should you push with a hand like KKds preflop? Finally, where is there a good place where I can find odds on various hand v hand both preflop and post so I can get a better feel for when it is generally a good idea to call or fold? Right now I am playign mostly from hold'em odds such as evaluating an openeded str8 plus flush draw and top 2 or 3 pair... |
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kenobi
Flush
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| dodge these wrote: |
| Finally, where is there a good place where I can find odds on various hand v hand both preflop and post so I can get a better feel for when it is generally a good idea to call or fold? |
Cardplayer.com has an odds calculator that might help (http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_odds/omaha). |
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shat4brains
High Card
Joined: 12 May 2007
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| play some small stakes full ring and get a general feeling of different situations and things to take advantage of. gl |
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