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ridic x

On the flop the flush draw did worry me a bit but I felt I could get more money in going for the over calls. On the turn the flush hit and gave me a boat I considered 2 betting here but I figured any decent spade would come along for 1 bet and I could get 1 or 2 over calls and not kill action on the river where I planned on pumping it up. What would you have done?

Full Tilt Poker Game #1389875133: Table Seth (6 max) - $1/$2 - Limit Hold'em - 1:23:47 ET - 2006/12/11
Seat 1: Adebayosh ($25.25)
Seat 2: ridic x ($49)
Seat 3: Mackena ($35.50)
Seat 4: nybiggs ($80.25)
Seat 5: DonMegga6969 ($3.75)
Seat 6: Pios ($103)
ridic x posts the small blind of $0.50
Mackena posts the big blind of $1
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ridic x [Jc Jd]
nybiggs raises to $2
DonMegga6969 raises to $3
Pios calls $3
Adebayosh calls $3
ridic x raises to $4
Mackena folds
nybiggs calls $2
DonMegga6969 calls $0.75, and is all in
Pios calls $1
Adebayosh calls $1
*** FLOP *** [7h Js 9s]
ridic x checks
nybiggs checks
Pios checks
Adebayosh bets $1
ridic x calls $1
nybiggs calls $1
Pios calls $1
*** TURN *** [7h Js 9s] [7s]
ridic x checks
nybiggs checks
Pios checks
Adebayosh bets $2
ridic x calls $2
nybiggs folds
Pios folds
*** RIVER *** [7h Js 9s 7s] [8c]
ridic x checks
Adebayosh bets $2
ridic x raises to $4
Adebayosh calls $2
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ridic x shows [Jc Jd] (a full house, Jacks full of Sevens)
Adebayosh mucks
ridic x wins the side pot ($16.75) with a full house, Jacks full of Sevens
DonMegga6969 shows [Ks Ts] (a flush, King high)
ridic x wins the main pot ($19) with a full house, Jacks full of Sevens
DonMegga6969 is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $36.75 Main pot $19.75. Side pot $17. | Rake $1
Board: [7h Js 9s 7s 8c]
Seat 1: Adebayosh (button) mucked [Kc Kd] - two pair, Kings and Sevens
Seat 2: ridic x (small blind) showed [Jc Jd] and won ($35.75) with a full house, Jacks full of Sevens
Seat 3: Mackena (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: nybiggs folded on the Turn
Seat 5: DonMegga6969 showed [Ks Ts] and lost with a flush, King high
Seat 6: Pios folded on the Turn

relaxedriley · Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:03 am Post subject:

I would have raised it on the turn in hopes of running into a big(hopefully nut) flush or a 7(hopefully 7s full). A lot of people will take one off in a multiway pot and dump on the turn, so I typically find it more profitable to pump it up from the turn on. In the double bet rounds I like to put in as many raises and reraises as possible, sure you lose a caller sometimes but you would have to be positive that at least one person preferably two will call the single raise to flat call. In this situation when a very scary card comes off people are either willing to stay in for two bets or they are getting away from their hands for one bet.

In this situation if you had raised it your opponent might have feared you had the nut flush or 7's full so you might not have made more money with a raise on the turn but he wouldnt have dumped his hand either.

To summarize: when a scare card comes off on the turn people who will call one bet will typically call two and you cant afford to lose bets during the double bet rounds. Of course it all depends on your opponents but I find that to be the case. Then again I play very low limits and playing style may change between .25/.5, .5/1 and 1/2. (I have watched 1/2 here on FT and it is a lot tighter than 1/2 on party poker).

Edit: plus on those rare occaisions when your opponent does have 7's full you will make a killing capping both streets, you will make a good bit when they have the nut flush too. Of course they will make you run home to mommy when they have pocket 7's but you cant be afraid of that.

bigwheell · Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:05 am Post subject:

I think I would have went after it and bet it...

I do not see how you can cap preflop and not bet the flop...That would send up my "he has a monster" antenna, and I would probably shut down...I have seen it a few times play out that way and the player almost always has a monster...

With a preflop cap and if you would have led out on the flop betting, you probably would have been raised, as someone has to have a big hand worth playing with the preflop cap...

I just think looking at this hand at face value, you would have gotten more bets by leading on the flop...If another player raised, you could call and then checkraise the turn...

I was not at the table and only you can have a feel on how to best play the hand...Maybe you needed to slowplay a monster if you had not done it in awhile.

Nice hand by the way...

KGBlovesOreos · Moderator Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 5318 Location: VA

I'm not much of a limit player, but I do know this much. On a flop like that with four other opponents, I'd try to sneak in an extra bet or two when I can. Granted, you may lose a big bet on the turn or river if you play fast, but think about it this way:

Any 5, 6, 8, 10, Q, or spade (that doesn't pair the board of course) is a scare card, and since you're only about 30% to fill up, you cannot rely on that, so you may as well make your opponents pay for whatever draw they're chasing here, right?

ridic x · Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:28 am Post subject:

Ok, the set blinded me b/c if I think about it I should've known there was another big pair out there and as you said led the flop and got raised by the big pair and then I could've gotten some over calls there. As it was if I raise the bet he makes when checked to him I force the other two to call two bets cold to see the turn which is -EV for them. On the turn I thought one of the two other callers on the flop hit either a flush, TP, or very unlikely a boat (or they flopped the str8 which I think we would've seen more action on the flop) and b/c I had usually been leading my good hands (showed down 2 pair twice within the last 10 hands betting the entire way) I thought I could get a check/raise in on TP, the flush, or outside shot at a worse boat on the turn. In hind sight I agree that leading the flop would have been the more wise choice. Just wanted some opinions.

edit: when I say hit TP I meant already had it even though unlikely since i hold 2 of the J.

deadmoney314 · Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:59 am Post subject:

This is falling dangerously close to fancy play syndrome, I say that because it seems that your instincts are to play tricky in a multiway pot when you flop a monster. It worked well this time but you could have sacrificed a lot of extra bets. I have to wonder what hand you are waiting for to cap all streets all the way (which is a lot of money multiway) if not this one. I'm not claiming that it would have gone that way but at 1/2 I've made plenty off people chasing hopelessly and a lot of times drawing dead and hit a card which they think saves them--which is priceless multiway. Its much harder to cap every street multiway without raising. The one saving grace of your flop play is sometimes its better to wait for the turn card to come to charge opponents a larger price for the draw, in this case however, the pot was already so big you might as well cap the whole way and only check call at the river if an obvious flush/str8 made it and you don't hold the full house by then.

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