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ambitious207
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 2122
Location: Maine
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 Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:29 pm Post subject: Hand analysis |
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I am terrible at Razz. I was hoping someone could tell me where I made mistakes.
Full Tilt Poker Game #1294413658: message board junkies (8745214), Table 1 - 50/100 Ante 10 - Limit Razz - 21:22:07 ET - 2006/11/23
Seat 1: ambitious207 (1,480)
Seat 2: TazzMetal (1,700)
Seat 3: SloshedZeus (1,000)
Seat 4: drcossack (935)
Seat 5: NOLEMIKE93 (1,330), is sitting out
Seat 6: junkbutton (1,980)
Seat 7: pkrgrlie64 (1,985)
Seat 8: asfispimp (1,590)
ambitious207 antes 10
TazzMetal antes 10
SloshedZeus antes 10
drcossack antes 10
NOLEMIKE93 antes 10
junkbutton antes 10
pkrgrlie64 antes 10
asfispimp antes 10
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to ambitious207 [5d Ah] [4d]
Dealt to TazzMetal [7s]
Dealt to SloshedZeus [Qs]
Dealt to drcossack [6h]
Dealt to NOLEMIKE93 [Qd]
Dealt to junkbutton [Kc]
Dealt to pkrgrlie64 [9d]
Dealt to asfispimp [Ks]
asfispimp is high with [Ks]
asfispimp brings in for 15
ambitious207 completes it to 50
TazzMetal folds
SloshedZeus folds
drcossack raises to 100
NOLEMIKE93 folds
junkbutton folds
pkrgrlie64 folds
asfispimp folds
ambitious207 raises to 150
drcossack raises to 200
ambitious207 calls 50
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to ambitious207 [5d Ah 4d] [7c]
Dealt to drcossack [6h] [7h]
ambitious207 bets 50
drcossack raises to 100
ambitious207 raises to 150
drcossack raises to 200
ambitious207 calls 50
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to ambitious207 [5d Ah 4d 7c] [Ad]
Dealt to drcossack [6h 7h] [4c]
ambitious207 checks
drcossack bets 100
ambitious207 calls 100
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to ambitious207 [5d Ah 4d 7c Ad] [Qc]
Dealt to drcossack [6h 7h 4c] [3h]
drcossack bets 100
ambitious207 has 15 seconds left to act
ambitious207 calls 100
*** 7TH STREET ***
Dealt to ambitious207 [5d Ah 4d 7c Ad Qc] [Ac]
drcossack bets 100
ambitious207 folds
Uncalled bet of 100 returned to drcossack
bowmanator (Observer): ace pair ya?
drcossack shows [5s 4s 6h 7h 4c 3h 3d] (7,6,5,4,3)
drcossack wins the pot (1,295)
drcossack: Wow, I feel like that ME donk who clashed w/Raymer
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1,295 | Rake 0
Seat 1: ambitious207 folded on 7th St.
Seat 2: TazzMetal folded on 3rd St.
Seat 3: SloshedZeus folded on 3rd St.
Seat 4: drcossack collected (1,295)
Seat 5: NOLEMIKE93 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 6: junkbutton folded on 3rd St.
Seat 7: pkrgrlie64 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 8: asfispimp folded on 3rd St. |
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NOLEMIKE93
Full House
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 165
Location: Tallahassee,Florida
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| I might would have folded on 5th, and definately on 6th. You're drawing to a 75 and he's (luckboxdoc) is drawing to a 76, so technically you're possibly drawing to a lower hand. Just try to notice how many low cards were folded earlier or use your time bank to scroll back and check. |
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NOLEMIKE93
Full House
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 165
Location: Tallahassee,Florida
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| Not to mention he raise your completion on third, so chances are he's sitting on 3 lows. |
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FsuBostonMike
Pair
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 36
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Basically just echoing whats already been said. He raises your complete, so right there I figure he's sittin on 3 cards under 8. Then on 5th, your still drawing to a 7-5, which isnt a bad hand at all, but your still drawing, and theres a very good chance he's already made his hand. Then on 6th you hit a Q and he hits a 3, right there I'd fold. I never wanna leave myself down to one drawing card, maybe I call if ive already made a hand and am looking to improve it...but in this case i would have folded on 5th. |
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Bogey5800
Three of a Kind
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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After 4th Street its pretty obvious that you both have 4 low cards--and that your exposed 7/4 (actual 7/5) is ahead of his 7/6. Your check/call on 5th street (when the Ace hit) however, shouted weakness when you otherwise "looked" strong. A check-raise on 5th would have signalled a made-7 and perhaps scared him and/or slowed him down--while costing you the same amount of $$ you ultimately ended up losing. By sixth street, however, (because of your check-call on 5th street) its pretty clear that you're (a) behind in the hand, and (b) that he can't be bluffed off. Probably time to get out.
Notwithstanding, this is a hand where you were going to lose $$ no matter how you played it (and why Razz is both fun and frustrating to play), your "bad" cards came on 6th & 7th Street--screwing up a pretty good starting hand--and that's always going to cost you. |
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asfispimp
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 1763
Location: vegas
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Hand analysis |
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| ambitious207 wrote: |
I am terrible at Razz. I was hoping someone could tell me where I made mistakes.
Full Tilt Poker Game #1294413658: message board junkies (8745214), Table 1 - 50/100 Ante 10 - Limit Razz - 21:22:07 ET - 2006/11/23
Seat 1: ambitious207 (1,480)
Seat 2: TazzMetal (1,700)
Seat 3: SloshedZeus (1,000)
Seat 4: drcossack (935)
Seat 5: NOLEMIKE93 (1,330), is sitting out
Seat 6: junkbutton (1,980)
Seat 7: pkrgrlie64 (1,985)
Seat 8: asfispimp (1,590)
ambitious207 antes 10
TazzMetal antes 10
SloshedZeus antes 10
drcossack antes 10
NOLEMIKE93 antes 10
junkbutton antes 10
pkrgrlie64 antes 10
asfispimp antes 10
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to ambitious207 [5d Ah] [4d]
Dealt to TazzMetal [7s]
Dealt to SloshedZeus [Qs]
Dealt to drcossack [6h]
Dealt to NOLEMIKE93 [Qd]
Dealt to junkbutton [Kc]
Dealt to pkrgrlie64 [9d]
Dealt to asfispimp [Ks]
asfispimp is high with [Ks]
asfispimp brings in for 15
ambitious207 completes it to 50
TazzMetal folds
SloshedZeus folds
drcossack raises to 100
NOLEMIKE93 folds
junkbutton folds
pkrgrlie64 folds
asfispimp folds
ambitious207 raises to 150
drcossack raises to 200
ambitious207 calls 50
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to ambitious207 [5d Ah 4d] [7c]
Dealt to drcossack [6h] [7h]
ambitious207 bets 50
drcossack raises to 100
ambitious207 raises to 150
drcossack raises to 200
ambitious207 calls 50
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to ambitious207 [5d Ah 4d 7c] [Ad]
Dealt to drcossack [6h 7h] [4c]
ambitious207 checks
drcossack bets 100
ambitious207 calls 100
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to ambitious207 [5d Ah 4d 7c Ad] [Qc]
Dealt to drcossack [6h 7h 4c] [3h]
drcossack bets 100
ambitious207 has 15 seconds left to act
ambitious207 calls 100
*** 7TH STREET ***
Dealt to ambitious207 [5d Ah 4d 7c Ad Qc] [Ac]
drcossack bets 100
ambitious207 folds
Uncalled bet of 100 returned to drcossack
bowmanator (Observer): ace pair ya?
drcossack shows [5s 4s 6h 7h 4c 3h 3d] (7,6,5,4,3)
drcossack wins the pot (1,295)
drcossack: Wow, I feel like that ME donk who clashed w/Raymer
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1,295 | Rake 0
Seat 1: ambitious207 folded on 7th St.
Seat 2: TazzMetal folded on 3rd St.
Seat 3: SloshedZeus folded on 3rd St.
Seat 4: drcossack collected (1,295)
Seat 5: NOLEMIKE93 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 6: junkbutton folded on 3rd St.
Seat 7: pkrgrlie64 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 8: asfispimp folded on 3rd St. |
I wouldnt cap incase you brick like you did. Only cap if your trying to get someone out of the hand. Your bricks are part of the game your not going to dodge them, so basically you really got screwed on that hand, nothing you can do about it. |
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SaylorMarsh
Two Pair
Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Mishawaka, IN
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: Hand analysis |
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| asfispimp wrote: |
| I wouldnt cap incase you brick like you did. Only cap if your trying to get someone out of the hand. Your bricks are part of the game your not going to dodge them, so basically you really got screwed on that hand, nothing you can do about it. |
Terrible advice. When you have the best hand, put as much money as you can into the pot. |
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Otto410
Royal Flush
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 850
Location: The Land Of Pleasant Living
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Saylor:
The reason that the "don't cap" advice isn't necessarily bad is that you need to know how Dr. Cossack plays. If he has a good hand, he will not fold (I'm not being critical of the good Doctor -- just observational). Plus the drawing nature of Razz always makes me wary of capping on the door cards. It's not like Dr. was staying with a Jack showing. |
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drcossack
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 1340
Location: Northeast Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Otto:
You bastard! Stop giving out my secrets! 
Actually, that's pretty much it.
From what I can remember of the hand (I don't have access to my HH's right now. Uni. comp lab. I'll edit with what I was actually holding later tonight), I thought he was on 3 low cards (and, IIRC, so was I), and I wanted to get some chips in the pot for when he bricked, so I re-raised him.
On 4th and 5th, it was pretty standard. On 6th, when he had 47AQ, I figured I was ahead unless he started with a hand that could beat my board. If he did, I'm paying him off if the board's not too scary, which it wasn't. |
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mzbuns
Fine Wine
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 3839
Location: on the golf course in Buhl, ID
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| drcossack wrote: |
Otto:
You bastard! Stop giving out my secrets!
Actually, that's pretty much it.
From what I can remember of the hand (I don't have access to my HH's right now. Uni. comp lab. I'll edit with what I was actually holding later tonight), I thought he was on 3 low cards (and, IIRC, so was I), and I wanted to get some chips in the pot for when he bricked, so I re-raised him.
On 4th and 5th, it was pretty standard. On 6th, when he had 47AQ, I figured I was ahead unless he started with a hand that could beat my board. If he did, I'm paying him off if the board's not too scary, which it wasn't. |
That's nothing new Doc ~ you never fold period...........  8)  |
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drcossack
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 1340
Location: Northeast Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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Here was my end:
Full Tilt Poker Game #1294413658: message board junkies (8745214), Table 1 - 50/100 Ante 10 - Limit Razz - 21:22:07 ET - 2006/11/23
Seat 1: ambitious207 (1,480)
Seat 2: TazzMetal (1,700)
Seat 3: SloshedZeus (1,000)
Seat 4: drcossack (935)
Seat 5: NOLEMIKE93 (1,330), is sitting out
Seat 6: junkbutton (1,980)
Seat 7: pkrgrlie64 (1,985)
Seat 8: asfispimp (1,590)
ambitious207 antes 10
TazzMetal antes 10
SloshedZeus antes 10
drcossack antes 10
NOLEMIKE93 antes 10
junkbutton antes 10
pkrgrlie64 antes 10
asfispimp antes 10
*** 3RD STREET ***
Dealt to ambitious207 [4d]
Dealt to TazzMetal [7s]
Dealt to SloshedZeus [Qs]
Dealt to drcossack [5s 4s] [6h]
Dealt to NOLEMIKE93 [Qd]
Dealt to junkbutton [Kc]
Dealt to pkrgrlie64 [9d]
Dealt to asfispimp [Ks]
asfispimp is high with [Ks]
asfispimp brings in for 15
ambitious207 completes it to 50
TazzMetal folds
SloshedZeus folds
drcossack raises to 100
NOLEMIKE93 folds
junkbutton folds
pkrgrlie64 folds
asfispimp folds
ambitious207 raises to 150
drcossack raises to 200
ambitious207 calls 50
*** 4TH STREET ***
Dealt to ambitious207 [4d] [7c]
Dealt to drcossack [5s 4s 6h] [7h]
ambitious207 bets 50
drcossack raises to 100
ambitious207 raises to 150
drcossack raises to 200
ambitious207 calls 50
*** 5TH STREET ***
Dealt to ambitious207 [4d 7c] [Ad]
Dealt to drcossack [5s 4s 6h 7h] [4c]
ambitious207 checks
drcossack bets 100
ambitious207 calls 100
*** 6TH STREET ***
Dealt to ambitious207 [4d 7c Ad] [Qc]
Dealt to drcossack [5s 4s 6h 7h 4c] [3h]
drcossack bets 100
ambitious207 has 15 seconds left to act
ambitious207 calls 100
*** 7TH STREET ***
Dealt to drcossack [5s 4s 6h 7h 4c 3h] [3d]
ambitious207: i had u so dominated through 4th
drcossack bets 100
ambitious207 folds
Uncalled bet of 100 returned to drcossack
drcossack shows [5s 4s 6h 7h 4c 3h 3d] (7,6,5,4,3)
bowmanator (Observer): ace pair ya?
drcossack wins the pot (1,295)
drcossack: Wow, I feel like that ME donk who clashed w/Raymer
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1,295 | Rake 0
Seat 1: ambitious207 folded on 7th St.
Seat 2: TazzMetal folded on 3rd St.
Seat 3: SloshedZeus folded on 3rd St.
Seat 4: drcossack collected (1,295)
Seat 5: NOLEMIKE93 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 6: junkbutton folded on 3rd St.
Seat 7: pkrgrlie64 folded on 3rd St.
Seat 8: asfispimp folded on 3rd St.
I probably played it badly too, but I hate Razz. Big time. |
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SaylorMarsh
Two Pair
Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Mishawaka, IN
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| Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Otto410 wrote: |
Saylor:
The reason that the "don't cap" advice isn't necessarily bad is that you need to know how Dr. Cossack plays. If he has a good hand, he will not fold (I'm not being critical of the good Doctor -- just observational). Plus the drawing nature of Razz always makes me wary of capping on the door cards. It's not like Dr. was staying with a Jack showing. |
Well, not capping because of a read on a particular player is entirely different from not capping because you might brick up and lose your bets. That's playing timid, and in the long run that will cause you to lose more often and win less when you do actually take it down.
The point of poker is to bet the most when you have an advantage and only slow down if you're not sure. This is especially true in any fixed limit game because you only have so many opportunities to extract bets, and doubly especially true in a tournament since you're always in a race against the clock.
Let's use a Hold'em example. Say you have JJ, open-raise, and someone three-bets you. He may have QQ. He may have AK. He may have TT. Since you're not sure whether or not you have a dominating, dominated, or coin-flip hand, there's nothing wrong with just calling a three-bet in that case. (I still cap it 'cause I'm aggressive like that.)
But because this is Razz, ambitious already knows he has the best hand, since Cossack's 6 upcard is bigger than any of the cards he holds. Letting an underdog draw cards to beat you without making him pay the stiffest possible price for it is the cardinal sin in all of poker.
There are other benefits, too. Let's say Cossack is the one who bricks up on 4th and 5th and is forced to fold. Wouldn't you be glad you got four bets out of him on 3rd street instead of just two? |
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JokerStars
Royal Flush
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Completely agree with Saylor, and I think it is fairly asinine to say I got as much money into the pot for when he bricked on later streets
That's relying completely on luck....? AKA a losing play. |
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drcossack
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 1340
Location: Northeast Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| JokerStars wrote: |
Completely agree with Saylor, and I think it is fairly asinine to say I got as much money into the pot for when he bricked on later streets
That's relying completely on luck....? AKA a losing play. |
It's Razz. Bricks are GUARANTEED. |
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JokerStars
Royal Flush
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| ok lol. |
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