Online Poker Forum - Thoughts on a hand?

Jaconda78 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 4179

So a few days ago I found myself in a SNG with DoubleDownA, and we started having a discussion about a hand he played. I feel he played incorrectly, but would like to see what you guys think. Double, you know I have nothing personal in this - I just like the poker discussion possible from this hand. Here's the HH:

FullTiltPoker Game #221718277: $10 + $1 Sit & Go (1411109), Table 1 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:39:45 ET - 2005/09/17
Seat 1: GREENcrpt (1,585)
Seat 2: golfnpoker (1,500)
Seat 3: jnvcmsu21 (4,250)
Seat 4: Jaconda78 (1,320)
Seat 5: play4first (410)
Seat 6: ovrdos (1,310)
Seat 7: DoubledownA (2,270)
Seat 8: lucky081805 (235)
Seat 9: dcjones (620)
ovrdos posts the small blind of 25
DoubledownA posts the big blind of 50
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Jaconda78 [5c Kc]
Jaconda78: that's harsh, man
lucky081805: that sucked
play4first: oh my god
lucky081805 raises to 235, and is all in
dcjones folds
GREENcrpt folds
golfnpoker folds
jnvcmsu21 calls 235
Jaconda78 folds
play4first folds
ovrdos folds
dcjones: how come jnv gets all the aces?
DoubledownA calls 185
*** FLOP *** [5d Td Ah]
play4first: watch him finish the job
DoubledownA bets 730
jnvcmsu21 folds
DoubledownA shows [Ad 8d]
lucky081805 shows [6h 7s]
Jaconda78: lol
Uncalled bet of 730 returned to DoubledownA
*** TURN *** [5d Td Ah] [3s]
*** RIVER *** [5d Td Ah 3s] [6d]
DoubledownA shows a flush, Ace high
lucky081805 shows a pair of Sixes
Jaconda78: gg
DoubledownA wins the pot (730) with a flush, Ace high
lucky081805 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 730 | Rake 0
Board: [5d Td Ah 3s 6d]
Seat 1: GREENcrpt didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: golfnpoker didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: jnvcmsu21 folded on the Flop
Seat 4: Jaconda78 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: play4first (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: ovrdos (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: DoubledownA (big blind) showed [Ad 8d] and won (730) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 8: lucky081805 showed [6h 7s] and lost with a pair of Sixes
Seat 9: dcjones didn't bet (folded)

See, I think he should have bet less on the flop. The best bet, I think, would be something like 1/2 the pot - get more money into the pot, while also helping to later disguise his continuation bets. If he makes a bet that looks like a continuation bet, he can get called by a worse hand, while with the way he bet, more likely than not, he'll be called by a hand that's beating him. If he bets less, he's also more likely to get a flush draw to call. In this case he got lucky and won a call anyways, by a worse hand. But overall, I think it's the wrong move. Thoughts?

Jaconda78 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 4179

Oh, double - I went on to win the tourny, BTW. Yay to that suckout earlier...

angelbullock · Three of a Kind Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 82

bet 2/3 of the pot , the guy with the 67 may go in thinking that his semi bluff will get it all , the opponent may put him on a higher ace and still call with the chance to win with the flush draw or maybe pair his kicker and if the 2/3 pot bet isnt called the guy still adds to his stack, when people bet half if looks like a draw bet and it is going to get called in this case and u want a call in this case. However, some players will bet the pot or go all in and if u dont have an alternate hand to draw to, you may have to fold , even if u may have the best hand. Embarassed

Teaguen · Straight Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 115

With only a 3 way flop and 1 player all in preflop (with top pair and the nut flush draw) i would definetly want to get some money out of the chip leader. How agressice was JNV? Do you think he wouldve thrown some money at that flop had you checked? Would he have called or even raised a smaller bet? With that much invested so far im guessing you were willing to risk it all had JNV reriased your 730 bet.

By betting out that much you told jnv that you had the all in guy beat (so he got out of the way) , which was the case since he went in with junk. Smarter players tend to go all in at least with a good A in which case you needed to pair your kicker or hit your flush, so betting out the only guy that can really pay you off was probably not a good idea.

byamamoto1 · Bay Area Bidness Joined: 11 Aug 2005 Posts: 2317

Even if the chip leader had a large stack it doesn't necessarily mean he'll call a post flop bet with anything. they forget that a player is all-in and could potentially be gone from the sng. from his standpoint he probably would have even layed down middle pair nice kicker because its not worth getting into a big confrontation when someone's already on the brink of being eliminated. when a player bets into an empty sidepot, it usually means he's got strength and i'm all for it if he wants to take it down himself, if i hold less than top pair, good kicker. beware of betting into empty sidepots, you will only get called by big hands. just my 2 cents.

wbtczn · Pair Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 28

I was taught when you have someone all in, unless you have the absolute nuts, you don't bet. In general, it's more important to get that all-in person knocked out than to beat up on each other. You don't know if you have the all-in beat, and you don't know if the other person does.

Iwineverypot · Flush Joined: 21 Aug 2005 Posts: 131

Jaconda, i don't understand what you mean when you say he got a caller on his post flop bet. He didn't get a caller. I however agree with you, that bet is not a very smart bet. I had a similiar situation with a friend where a low stack went all in, he and another person called and then after the flop my friend pushes all in because he paired his ace. I told him that was a pretty stupid move, becuase he's only getting called when he's beaten, and he also could've made some money of the other guy with a smaller bet. So in conclusion, a large bet into an empty sidepot when you probably do have the best hand isn't the right play -- you're only getting called when you DONT have the best hand, otherwise you're just pushing a guy out who might've caught part of the flop and would've payed you more than you made. And wbctzn, eliminating another player is pretty nice but alot of times the shortstack is so insignificant that you want to get paid off by the other player involved in the sidepot. Sure, if you and your opponent are both willing to check it down thats fine, but don't miss out on opportunities to take his money as well.

Jaconda78 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 4179

Whoops - I was totally wrong on the "he got a caller" thing. Sorry - I reviewed the hand really quickly and forgot that the guy was all in. As for checking it down, I think he was perfectly entitled to bet there - I just think he should have made a bet that could win him some money, like 1/2 to 2/3 the pot.

gigadebt · Pair Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 29

I would have folded preflop

KGBlovesOreos · Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:51 pm Post subject:

jaconda, you're right... he should've lowered his bet a lot to try and induce a call when he had the type of hand he had... i disagree w/ wbtczn... when you play poker, you try and acquire as many chips as possible, right? i mean, the point is to win, so you should acquire as many chips as possible by value betting when you have a good hand so that you can induce a call...

gigadebt · Pair Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 29

GripHoldOn · Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:21 pm Post subject:

Jaconda, you were the only player he was trying to win money from, and seeing as you're a pretty tight player in general, at least compared to thei idiots in these things, I'd be a little worried that perhaps I was beat. The problem is, with the nut diamond redraw, there's little chance he can get away from this hand. There's also a slim chance that you'll release a bigger ace. Since you probably won't give action into the dry side pot WITHOUT a bigger ace, I think I like making a large bet and potentially inducing a fold of the best hand on your part. As it was, you weren't going anywhere with your K5, so it doesn't really matter. Just out of curiousity, what would you have done with a bigger ace such as AJ?

UrbanMeyer1 · Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:45 pm Post subject:

Fold preflop.

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