Online Poker Forum - Explanation & Tips For Players New To Razz (Feel Free To Add To It)
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FsuBostonMike
Pair


Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 36
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:20 pm    Post subject: Explanation & Tips For Players New To Razz (Feel Free To Add To It) Reply with quote

Okay so I see alot of posts from new players either wanting to learn the game of Razz, or get some helpful pointers to improve there game. and as a winning poker player whose favorite game is lowball (Razz), I've come up with my 3 guidelines to winning. A simple explanation for Razz is that the player with the lowest sequence of 5 cards wins the hand, A2345 being the best possible hand a player can have. Here are some things I've learned about the game in my 9 yrs of playing.

1.) With the first 3 cards dealt to you, if your holding 2 cards under 8, then complete, remember you get dealt 7 cards, so say your first 3 cards dealt are A3K, dont let the King scare you out of the hand, complete and push out any weak hands trying to limp in.

2.) Read your opponents face up cards, if you see that 3 players all hold the same card then you know the chances of you pairing that card are low, also pay attention to the player showing low/high cards, if a player is showing a pair, or 2 face cards, play him strong and bet him.

3.) Dont chase once youve paired up after the bring in/complete remember its the lowest sequence of 5, so even pairs of 2's, or A's put you at a big disadvantage, If your dealt a small pair at the start of the hand, it's okay to bring in and limp into the hand if possible, but being dealt a pair at the start of a hand almost always kills your chances of taking the pot.

Well those would be my 3 most important rules to play by while playing razz, Im sure they'll be 100's of people who disagree, so feel free to tell me I am an idiot and tell me what Ive been doing wrong and also feel free to add any other pointers and tips.

-Mike
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clussman
Message Board Junkie


Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always hit a lot of bricks in Razz (Razz hates me) so I tend to play conservatively. I'll play with two good low cards (5 or under) or three low cards (8 or under) to start. I never play pairs unless I'm representing the best card against a weak board. I do need to start getting more aggressive and start completing on 3rd.

Advice: as in any Stud game, pay attention. Don't even look at your own cards until you've memorized what everybody else has up. Keep track of the cards that are out. Write them down if you have to. (Some people have suggested typing them into the comment box.) If you're the bring-in, it's real easy to pause and look at the cards everybody has. If you're not the bring-in, read the cards clockwise from whoever is. Otherwise, in the blink of an eye, you could miss several folded cards.

I'll take any advice anybody has on the subject. My Razz game is in desperate need of improvement.
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FsuBostonMike
Pair


Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 36
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea real good point to bring up, always pay attention to what cards are folded, and as far as playing pairs..well if im dealt a low pair to begin the hand and i have a decent draw with the pair, say something like AA4, I'll pay the small bet to see what comes next, for the simple fact that if I hit another low card and my hand becomes AA43, it becomes easier to represent the best hand, and push players out on a bet. But I'll almost always fold my hand if I've paired up after the bring in/completion.
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jbrennen
Straight Flush


Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 422

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Explanation & Tips For Players New To Razz (Feel Free To Add To It) Reply with quote

FsuBostonMike wrote:
1.) With the first 3 cards dealt to you, if your holding 2 cards under 8, then complete, remember you get dealt 7 cards, so say your first 3 cards dealt are A3K, dont let the King scare you out of the hand, complete and push out any weak hands trying to limp in.


First, that's an aggressive and high-variance style of Razz... Not necessarily good or bad, but you will experience bigger swings that way.

However, I sure hope that you're not advocating completing with (A-3)-K if the King is showing. You won't push anybody out. In fact, they may reraise you with a weak hand like (J-9)-8, knowing that J-9-8 is a favorite over any three card hand with a King. That's the same (J-9)-8 hand that would fold without a second thought if you completed with (A-K)-3 or (3-K)-A.
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FsuBostonMike
Pair


Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 36
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops, sorry K3A or AK3 should have been how I explained that particular hand, you never want to complete showing a face card, i'll never complete showing anything higher then a 6, but if I have (K-3)A, or two good drawing cards with a face down K, Q, or J, I'll sometimes try a raise to draw out any weak hands. Definitley not the tightest play but it's seemed to always worked for me, at least for scaring out week hands. I like my chances playing 3 handed or heads up, then I do with 4 or 5 players in the hand.
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fisherman25
High Card


Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice post , some interesting remarks. RAZZ is a very interesting game
it's good to see it getting attention
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FsuBostonMike
Pair


Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 36
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, can be very frustrating at times also, the playmoney tables from what ive seen are pretty much a joke (again..from what Ive seen). I sat at 100/200 playmoney, 6 players at the table, and 4 of them didnt know how to play.
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fisherman25
High Card


Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

playmoney?? i dont expect people to play their best over there
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FsuBostonMike
Pair


Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 36
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, I have been playing my real money over at Absolute Poker & CityPoker so I figured I would check out the whole layout at fulltilt, but I just made my first 500$ deposit with FT so I'll be hittin the real tables tonite.
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SaylorMarsh
Two Pair


Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Mishawaka, IN

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FsuBostonMike wrote:
Yea, I have been playing my real money over at Absolute Poker & CityPoker so I figured I would check out the whole layout at fulltilt, but I just made my first 500$ deposit with FT so I'll be hittin the real tables tonite.

No offense, but if all the experience you have is play-money, you should be accepting advice, not giving it.

"if your holding 2 cards under 8, then complete, remember you get dealt 7 cards, so say your first 3 cards dealt are A3K, dont let the King scare you out of the hand, complete and push out any weak hands trying to limp in."

Occasionally good advice if the bring-in is to your left and there are only mediocre upcards around. But if the bring-in is on your right, you're better off folding, especially if there are other scary upcards that could raise. In fact, if even one person has limped in, you shouldn't complete, as they're not going away.



if a player is showing a pair, or 2 face cards, play him strong and bet him . . . Dont chase once youve paired up after the bring in/complete remember its the lowest sequence of 5, so even pairs of 2's, or A's put you at a big disadvantage.

Depends on what pair, and what cards your opponent holds. Let's say your opponent completes with a 7, you raise with (6-2) A, everyone folds and your opponent calls. On fourth, you catch an A for an open pair, and your opponent gets a 6 and bets into you. Call. You're a 70/30 underdog, but you're getting about 6-1 odds. Now on fifth, say you catch a 3 and your opponent gets a 9 and bets into you again. RAISE. A good draw is a favorite over a made 9-low on fifth street. If the situations are reversed, and you have a 97632 against (x-x) A-A-3, you should check unless you're absolutely positive the 3 paired him, too.

Open-pairing on 4th is obviously bad, but it's not necessarily the end of the world.
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FsuBostonMike
Pair


Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 36
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Up until the point where I posted that the only experience I had at Full-Tilt was play money. I had only been at Full-Tilt for maybe 3 or 4 days and wanted to check out the whole layout before I deposited anything, hell ive been playing real for over 10 years now and I still ask for advice from other players.
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my85cutty
Pair


Joined: 05 Jan 2007
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well i have a newb question about the hands of razz....

say there are two ppl still in the hand come the 6-7 cards.... and for whatever the reason { bad players of bluffing gone bad or w/e } and both players show 2 low pairs.... say player 1 has AA 44 3 5 7 and player 2 has 22 33 6 7 8....... who wins?

or could some1 please explain this better with a hand description to make the point
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clussman
Message Board Junkie


Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my85cutty wrote:
say there are two ppl still in the hand come the 6-7 cards.... and for whatever the reason { bad players of bluffing gone bad or w/e } and both players show 2 low pairs.... say player 1 has AA 44 3 5 7 and player 2 has 22 33 6 7 8....... who wins?

The pairs count for nothing so you have to look at the unpaired cards:

A3457 vs 23678

The seven low beats the eight low and you don't need to look at any of the other cards in the hand. Had their high card been the same you would have moved to the next highest card, then the next, then the next. I had some sick seven high hands last night where I lost on the 3rd or 4th card down. Three times in 30 minutes for about $60 at $1/$2. Razz hates me.
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Tiera Starr
Message Board Junkie


Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 2161

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Set dealer messages to full detail, and enlarge chatwindow - makes it easier to track others folded cards.
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live4freerolls
Banned


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 2588
Location: Grindin

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Explanation & Tips For Players New To Razz (Feel Free To Add To It) Reply with quote

FsuBostonMike wrote:
Okay so I see alot of posts from new players either wanting to learn the game of Razz, or get some helpful pointers to improve there game. and as a winning poker player whose favorite game is lowball (Razz), I've come up with my 3 guidelines to winning. A simple explanation for Razz is that the player with the lowest sequence of 5 cards wins the hand, A2345 being the best possible hand a player can have. Here are some things I've learned about the game in my 9 yrs of playing.

1.) With the first 3 cards dealt to you, if your holding 2 cards under 8, then complete, remember you get dealt 7 cards, so say your first 3 cards dealt are A3K, dont let the King scare you out of the hand, complete and push out any weak hands trying to limp in.

2.) Read your opponents face up cards, if you see that 3 players all hold the same card then you know the chances of you pairing that card are low, also pay attention to the player showing low/high cards, if a player is showing a pair, or 2 face cards, play him strong and bet him.

3.) Dont chase once youve paired up after the bring in/complete remember its the lowest sequence of 5, so even pairs of 2's, or A's put you at a big disadvantage, If your dealt a small pair at the start of the hand, it's okay to bring in and limp into the hand if possible, but being dealt a pair at the start of a hand almost always kills your chances of taking the pot.

Well those would be my 3 most important rules to play by while playing razz, Im sure they'll be 100's of people who disagree, so feel free to tell me I am an idiot and tell me what Ive been doing wrong and also feel free to add any other pointers and tips.

-Mike


I really really would disregard this piece of advice as if you never heard it DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS !

Why you shouldnt is because at the end if your hand is not 8 low maybe even 9 low or better it will not be competitive. If you have A3K you get 4 more cards you need 3 cards out of the 4 that are 2,4,5,6,7,8, and only 1 10,J,Q,K,A,3 can hit in your hand if you catch two you are screwed royally so the odds are strongly against you pulling out the win with A 3 K !
However in a heads up situtation you may want to consider a call with such a hand to later outplay your opponent or hope they hit a brick.
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