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cheecho
Straight Flush
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 378
Location: The Beach
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 Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:40 pm Post subject: Continuous Shuffle ?!?? |
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I got this off another thread.
The deck is always shuffling??? I had no idea, so if I call immediately or in 2 seconds the result is different??
Is this true??? |
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I HATE CAPS
Straight Flush
Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 357
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| will the answer affect the way you play? if it will i dont think you want to know. |
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xX zorrito Xx
Four of a Kind
Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 273
Location: Reraising you from the button...
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| does it really matter?.. |
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BOYNAMEDSUE
Moderator
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7402
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| If it's continuously being shuffled, than yes, when you call will determine what card comes. But there's no way of knowing which card will come, so there's no need to worry about it. |
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The_OG_Rocco
Royal Flush
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 742
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Continuous Shuffle ?!?? |
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| cheecho wrote: |
I got this off another thread.
The deck is always shuffling??? I had no idea, so if I call immediately or in 2 seconds the result is different??
Is this true??? |
I have heard that this is indeed true. In a way it is good because you are playing online and you need all the protection that you can get.
However, If this happened in a brick and mortar game, everyone at the table would protest it. |
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Myrmidon73
Straight
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Continuous Shuffle ?!?? |
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| cheecho wrote: |
I got this off another thread.
The deck is always shuffling??? I had no idea, so if I call immediately or in 2 seconds the result is different??
Is this true??? |
Yes ti is, because the cards come up using a random number generator. The best way to find random numbers is to use the time in between certain events (like a bet and a call).
Still, this shouldn't make a difference. |
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acesfullokings9
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 1740
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Don't worry about it, it's for your protection, stopping people from "sniffing" out the next card. Your play should only be based on what card actually comes out. I don't think that you can affect the next card, or even if you can you wouldn't know how it affects it so don't worry about it. |
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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 5865
Location: Halifax, NS
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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i don't understand why people care so much. it won't affect anything. just make +EV plays and you will win money. as long as the cards are randomized at some point it will not matter.
personally i think the idea of a continuously shuffling deck is BS, because it's much easier (and economical in terms of required computational time) to write a subroutine to shuffle all the cards at once before the hand starts than to shuffle them before every card is dealt. |
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ardiroth
Pair
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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its not continuosly shuffled literally... it just draws another random number that is not being used already.... and it takes certain changing elements into account..... in other words the flop is 012 so thats 3 aces.... then it gets another random number if its a 0 1 2 then it gets a different one.........
or maybe it does have preset cards that are comin out but then the software would have the data ahead of time and theoretically this would make it posible for sum1 to "read" what card is coming next (through reading byte/encrypted data.... ) the server has to send the client what card is coming..... so i guarantee the software itself does not know ahead of time....
huwang i think u misunderstood wut i wuz sayin
Last edited by ardiroth on Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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HuJwang
Forum Blight
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 5865
Location: Halifax, NS
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| ardiroth wrote: |
its not continuosly shuffled literally... it just draws another random number that is not being used already.... and it takes certain changing elements into account..... in other words the flop is 012 so thats 3 aces.... then it gets another random number if its a 0 1 2 then it gets a different one.........
or maybe it does have preset cards that are comin out but then the software would have the data ahead of time and theoretically this would make it posible for sum1 to "read" what card is coming next |
theoretically sure. but there are so many factors that it would probably be impossible. |
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Searcher-Rick
Two Pair
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 51
Location: Atlantic City, NJ
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: Continuous Shuffle ?!?? |
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| cheecho wrote: |
I got this off another thread.
The deck is always shuffling??? I had no idea, so if I call immediately or in 2 seconds the result is different??
Is this true??? |
Yes it is true that different cards will show to the tune of 100 to 500 per second. Should it change your manner of play? Not at all as the only thing affected is the table chat.
"I threw away a straight" or whatever is bogus because if that person would have stayed in the round the cards that fell would have been different.
It is a great protection device, now to ban obvious colluders. |
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UFO1947
Alien Interrogator
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 3041
Location: NS, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| I heard if you stand on your head while hitting the call button you get your flush everytime. |
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Searcher-Rick
Two Pair
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 51
Location: Atlantic City, NJ
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| UFO1947 wrote: |
| I heard if you stand on your head while hitting the call button you get your flush everytime. |
I told you to keep that to yourself.  |
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USFDoh
Royal Flush
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 505
Location: Why sitting in my chair , of course
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Searcher-Rick wrote: |
| UFO1947 wrote: |
| I heard if you stand on your head while hitting the call button you get your flush everytime. |
I told you to keep that to yourself. |
But I get my Str8 flush by wearing my tin foil hat and counting to 5 before every call on the river 
Oh and yes, clicking the heels of my ruby slippers  |
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jbrennen
Straight Flush
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 422
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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Howard Lederer and Perry Friedman have actually discussed how Full Tilt's shuffle/RNG work.
http://tinyurl.com/yytcne
And basically, yes, the flop cards are not determined until after the preflop betting is finished. Likewise for all other cards dealt.
Contrary to what some believe, your mouse/keyboard inputs are almost certainly not used for the random number generation. Anybody who has done a large client/server programming project would immediately understand why this is so -- it adds absolutely nothing to the RNG, and it would consume valuable network bandwidth (to communicate your "personal" entropy statistics to the main server) for no useful reason. If they want to use an external source of entropy, they'd use something derived from the existing network traffic that they are handling, which is already a huge source of entropy -- either the timing of the incoming network traffic, or some easily extracted piece of information from the traffic which has sufficient "randomness".
They also use both a hardware random number generator and a software pseudo random number generator, and combine the two sources of random numbers together. This gives all of the unpredictability of a hardware generator, along with a measure of protection against a failure of the hardware generator. |
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