|
| Author |
Message |
asfispimp
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 1763
Location: vegas
|
 Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject: 3 to a wheel |
 |
|
| should you be raising a complete with 3 to a wheel if it looks like there will be more people in the pot, to thin the field. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
BOYNAMEDSUE
Moderator
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7402
Location: Toronto
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| You pump it to create a big pot, which gives you correct odds to chase. At least, that's how Phil Hellmuth recommends playing razz in his book, Play Poker Like the Pros. I think. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jbrennen
Straight Flush
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 422
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: 3 to a wheel |
|
|
| asfispimp wrote: |
| should you be raising a complete with 3 to a wheel if it looks like there will be more people in the pot, to thin the field. |
With 3 to a wheel, I would be raising a completion almost every time.
Razz is a game of small edges, and by only calling a completion, you're not extracting the most value from your strong starting hand.
| BOYNAMEDSUE wrote: |
| You pump it to create a big pot, which gives you correct odds to chase. |
That's mainly true if you can get heads up. If three players see fourth street, and you persist in calling with your (2-3)-4-K when both opponents caught low, the other two players are correct to cap the betting, and calling it down with your King is a mistake.
Note that if it does go heads up, pumping the pot early also gives your opponent correct odds to chase...  So I don't think that alone is enough reason to reraise the completion, because it's probably pretty much 50-50 as to who, if anyone, is going to be chasing a draw from behind.
IMHO, you raise the completion because:
- Don't even consider slowplaying a Razz hand unless you have the stone cold nuts -- and it's often a mistake there. Do try to check-raise in some situations where your opponent has a good-looking hand but yours is undoubtedly better. (But I wouldn't call a failed attempt to check-raise a slowplay.)
- By raising the completion, you have the best chance to get into a heads up pot. And because the pot will be bigger, you'll be justified to play deeper into the hand, giving your draw more chances to hit.
- Among a table full of good Razz players, you won't have enough of an edge over your opponents that you can afford to give up obvious chances to push a small equity advantage. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
asfispimp
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 1763
Location: vegas
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| alright next time I get into a similar hand like this Ill post some HH. thanks though I like the advice it makes sense now why you should raise the completion |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AlexScottUK
Straight Flush
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 416
Location: Isle of Man
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| BOYNAMEDSUE wrote: |
| You pump it to create a big pot, which gives you correct odds to chase. At least, that's how Phil Hellmuth recommends playing razz in his book, Play Poker Like the Pros. I think. |
In Sklansky's book, he recommends playing the opposite way against loose players. If you're going to get called down regardless of the pot size, you do best by keeping the pot small and encouraging your opponents to make a big mistake by calling. If you make the pot big they might be playing correctly by accident.
Nonetheless I think this advice is best applied to marginal hands, not usually good starting hands like three to a wheel. Most of the time you just do the obvious thing and raise.
By usually good, I mean you should definitely adjust to the cards that are out. If you have A-2-3 but there's 8-7-6-5-5-4-4 out, your hand is actually pretty marginal and you might want to keep the pot small and play cautiously. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CrustyFace
Pair
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 26
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:02 am Post subject: Re: 3 to a wheel |
|
|
| jbrennen wrote: |
| asfispimp wrote: |
| should you be raising a complete with 3 to a wheel if it looks like there will be more people in the pot, to thin the field. |
With 3 to a wheel, I would be raising a completion almost every time.
Razz is a game of small edges, and by only calling a completion, you're not extracting the most value from your strong starting hand.
| BOYNAMEDSUE wrote: |
| You pump it to create a big pot, which gives you correct odds to chase. |
That's mainly true if you can get heads up. If three players see fourth street, and you persist in calling with your (2-3)-4-K when both opponents caught low, the other two players are correct to cap the betting, and calling it down with your King is a mistake.
Note that if it does go heads up, pumping the pot early also gives your opponent correct odds to chase... So I don't think that alone is enough reason to reraise the completion, because it's probably pretty much 50-50 as to who, if anyone, is going to be chasing a draw from behind.
IMHO, you raise the completion because:
- Don't even consider slowplaying a Razz hand unless you have the stone cold nuts -- and it's often a mistake there. Do try to check-raise in some situations where your opponent has a good-looking hand but yours is undoubtedly better. (But I wouldn't call a failed attempt to check-raise a slowplay.)
- By raising the completion, you have the best chance to get into a heads up pot. And because the pot will be bigger, you'll be justified to play deeper into the hand, giving your draw more chances to hit.
- Among a table full of good Razz players, you won't have enough of an edge over your opponents that you can afford to give up obvious chances to push a small equity advantage. |
I say that that only applies to the medium and higher stakes, the micros will have people calling all over the shop.
I try and see nearly every hand i want to play as cheaply as possible purely because betting doesn't get you very much and with large multiway pots a great starting hand often never wins. This may sound negative but in all truth the micro stakes is where the dirt is and its hard to get a clean table down there. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AlexScottUK
Straight Flush
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 416
Location: Isle of Man
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
It doesn't matter if a hand won't usually win - poker is a game on small edges and you raise to maximise your winnings in the long run. If you've decided to change your game because of the results you experience in the short term, that's a big mistake.
The lower-stakes games may be looser, but that's great. You might not win as many pots, but the pots that you do win will be much bigger. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AllInDrawinDead
Royal Flush
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 580
Location: New York, NY
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I think it's really about how much variance you want in your game. I like to ram and jam with three to a wheel because I have a premium starting hand and if I win I'll win a big pot. If you want low variance then just calling the completion is the way to go. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FsuBostonMike
Pair
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 36
Location: Boston, MA
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 3 to a wheel..Im completing everytime, and if im raised, im reraising. That way you can push out weak hands, hope for a heads up situation or 3 handed, and you can almost garauntee that you have the best drawing hand. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
|
FAQ
Search
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
