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Honest_Rob

I've been playing a lot of .25/.50 limit HE on FT since Party closed and I noticed a lot of times people just will not fold two overcards on the flop. Sometimes they're getting odds to call drawing to 6 outs but many times they are not. Recently I've had several instances where I had KK or QQ or any hand that ends up flopping top pair get one or two preflop callers after my raise and the flop comes all unders and I bet and get a caller. Then the Ace hits the turn and they bet. Should I call this down or can I let this go here. I ask because I've seen many players at this level bet there with nothing or with some kind of draw. I haven't really played enough hands at this level to see how often most players will make these kinds of plays. If the Ace hit the river I think it's a must call with the amount of money that's likely already in the pot. I just want to clarify that this is with one or maybe two other players in the pot. One pair shrinks up a lot with 3 or more other players in the pot. I'm more interested in strategy specific for this level rather than a general strategy. Thanks for any help.

SenorHMAN · Flush Joined: 14 Oct 2006 Posts: 130 Location: Houston

This seems to happen to me a lot at these limits. With your opponent check-calling the flop, he's signifying that he's drawing to a hand that's better than what's on the board. By betting the turn in first position, he's either getting into an elaborate bluff or hit his hand. Me personally, I tend to call these hands down and more often than not, regret it. But usually at these limits, the price to see and pick up a read on your opponent is usually cheap enough to risk.

UFO1947 · Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject:

I was playing 1/2 limit on here and I had KK, he had AQd

flop was all low cards with one diamond he kept calling till the river when the 3rd diamond hit Kd Crying or Very sad

I hit trips thinking I'm good and cap it.

sigh

mathman1115 · Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject:

My general consensus is if i don't know the player all that well, don't give him credit for anything until he earns it.
Say i have QQ, raise preflop, and get one cold caller and the bb. flop comes 27T rainbow. Bet the flop, cold caller calls, bb folds. Turn comes a K. I'm still betting here, or if the positions are reversed and he bets, i'm calling him down. Unless i know the cold caller is tight, i'm not giving him credit until he shows me his K (and if he is tight, you can narrow hands down that he would cold call with). Same goes for an A, although he is much more likely to have an A than a K, but i'm still paying to see it anyway.
This way, he knows that i will call him down and he will refrain from attempting to bluff me in the future.
To me, making money in low limit holdem is about later, not necessaritly about now.

edit....same situation, but 3 or more players see the turn, i dump my QQ.

SenorHMAN · Flush Joined: 14 Oct 2006 Posts: 130 Location: Houston

This hand happened while i was reading this thread so I figured I'd try out a new stragegy.

Full Tilt Poker Game #1135191143: Table Carter - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:05:26 ET - 2006/10/22
Seat 1: SenorHMAN ($55.90)
Seat 2: caese ($50)
Seat 3: guitar_solo ($26.90)
Seat 4: blobben ($41.75)
Seat 5: Lester Cousins ($22.50)
Seat 6: chas32th3riv3r ($53.85)
Seat 7: j-roq ($78.35)
Seat 8: UMJM ($40.55)
Seat 9: damedic ($28.55)
caese posts the small blind of $0.25
guitar_solo posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SenorHMAN [Jh Jd]
blobben folds
Lester Cousins calls $0.50
chas32th3riv3r folds
j-roq folds
UMJM folds
damedic folds
SenorHMAN raises to $2.25
caese folds
guitar_solo folds
Lester Cousins calls $1.75
*** FLOP *** [2d Ad 7h]
Lester Cousins bets $1.50
SenorHMAN calls $1.50
*** TURN *** [2d Ad 7h] [4s]
Lester Cousins bets $4.50
SenorHMAN calls $4.50
*** RIVER *** [2d Ad 7h 4s] [4c]
Lester Cousins checks
SenorHMAN bets $17.25
Lester Cousins has 15 seconds left to act
Lester Cousins folds
Uncalled bet of $17.25 returned to SenorHMAN
SenorHMAN mucks
SenorHMAN wins the pot ($16.40)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $17.25 | Rake $0.85
Board: [2d Ad 7h 4s 4c]
Seat 1: SenorHMAN (button) collected ($16.40), mucked
Seat 2: caese (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: guitar_solo (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: blobben didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Lester Cousins folded on the River
Seat 6: chas32th3riv3r didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: j-roq didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: UMJM didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: damedic didn't bet (folded)

Paprika · Full House Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 194

I was playing 2-4 LHE live last week and had to dump AA. 8 in on the flop, board comes off KcTc9 bet, raise, reraise, ........ Too tight perhaps for some but someone flopped Ks up and another flopped a str8. Seems like a big PP doesn't hold up in a multi way pot like this one. With that many seeing the flop especially. 8!!! Typical low limit. I swear that the online play is way tighter at times than live low limit HE. I thought that it would be the opposite but it doen'st seem to be that way at all for LHE. I'm, curious as to how the 4-8 and 5-10 games are live. Don't yet quite have the bank for it though

griffinlord · Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:47 pm Post subject:

It depends.

I do call occassionally and catch people in a bluff, but I soooo often run into people calling any overs or any pair or any flush draw to the river that I am pretty easily spooked these days.

I also like to get some info on my opponents so calling one more bet on the end is often worth it. But at .25/.5 I start to look for a fold as soon as the board starts to get coordinated with cards I don't hold.

There are a few folks who check/call to the river then bet/raise no matter what they have. If you find one of these you have to call on the river if you have any kind of hand.

You really need to know your players at .25/.50. You have some that are trying to learn to be good. They don't play crap and they are smart enough to fold. But you have a lot more of the "any ace, any face, any two suited" players that are happy to see flops and call down to the river with any chance of improving.

And with 3-4 of those folks in the pot there's a pretty good chance one of them will catch enough of the flop to continue.

A couple of regulars here recommend a BR of 500bb for limit play. They have a valid point...with the "any...." players you will have more variance than with more skilled players. You just can't avoid variance when players will call a raise preflop with K4o and call down with a pair of 4's only to catch another 4 or a K on the river. However, you'll win all the pots where they don't hit their five outers, so long-term should be really good against these folks.

Zophar

mathman1115

Zophar · Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:21 pm Post subject:

For me it depends on the flop. If it's a coordinated board, I don't mind occasionally losing a bet when scaring off a smaller hand. If there are straight and flush possibilites, they will stick around and the draw, whether correct pot odds are in place or not, will be more costly. I have similar expectations of hands from NL to Limit. Big pairs, even with Aces, so rarely improve with any clarity(too often that seemingly meaningless paired 4 on the board isn't so meaningless) and are hard to get into a HU situation, so I focus on milking the most out of my 2 pairs, sets, etc.

I prefer to gain as much info as possible. The way they respond to my intitial plays towards them will often dictate their play from that point forward. Quite often this can become telegraphed. Also, in a shorthanded game, which is primarily what I play, I'll have many opportunities to see their cards shown down, so one missed opportunity rarely plays a roll. I think I'd probably check/call only more often in a tourney situation, when units are more precious.

I'm not saying it's the only way I'd play the hand, but it's something I'd probably do more often than check/call.

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