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dumwaldo
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 1656
Location: look to the stars
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 Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:51 pm Post subject: the president did not sign an online poker ban |
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The following is an unaltered quote lifted directly from the text of the unlawfull internet gambling enforcement act as it is included in the security and accountability for every port act of 2006...
"No provision of this subchapter shall be construed as altering, limiting, or extending any Federal or State law or Tribal-State compact prohibiting, permitting or regulating gambling within the United States"
No laws have changed or will change.
This new law adresses ONLY THE ENFORCEMENT OF CURRENT LAWS.
here is a site pokerscooby posted that can help americans understand what the laws are in their state...
http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Law-Summary/ |
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UFO1947
Alien Interrogator
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 3306
Location: NS, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| So what does this mean? Remember I'm stupid and lazy so use that kind explanation |
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dumwaldo
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 1656
Location: look to the stars
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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simple version...
online poker legal before = online poker legal now |
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drakes67
High Card
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Online poker has never been legal. It is banned in 48 states I believe. The bill is to scare and intimidate financial instituions. Any kind of gambling online is illegal and has been for a long time (Wiring Act), but there has been no one there to really enforce it. We will see if they do so now. Its up to the netellers and epassportes to take the risk now, the ball is in their court. |
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junkbutton
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 4049
Location: Gutterrock, NY
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| drakes67 wrote: |
| Online poker has never been legal. It is banned in 48 states I believe. The bill is to scare and intimidate financial instituions. Any kind of gambling online is illegal and has been for a long time (Wiring Act), but there has been no one there to really enforce it. We will see if they do so now. Its up to the netellers and epassportes to take the risk now, the ball is in their court. |
The Wire Act was passed in like 1961, wasn't it? How can that say that online gambling is illegal? The internet wasn't invented yet. |
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griffinlord
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 2459
Location: The Great Plains of South Dakota
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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The justice dept has long claimed that internet gaming is covered by the wire act, but they've never pushed their luck and tested it in court. Most pro-gambling legal scholars think that the courts would rule in favor of gaming interests were the Wire act to be used to prosecute something like online poker. (Sports betting seems to be clearly covered...don't make sports bets with your friends over the internet.)
The law also does not impact any gambling that is currently declared legal within a state. In fact, if your state wants to legalize online poker for its citizens it can do so...but they cannot play with people from other states/countries.  Theoretically if home games are legal in your state so too would be a home game where the internet was used to facilitate the dealing of cards and handling of chips--although you couldn't deposit money at the site legally. 
Finally, most legal minds agree that the playing of online poker is still legal for the individual. What is no longer legal is the movement of money to a gaming site by banks and some other financial institutions. Also it is illegal for your US based ISP to allow connection with a gaming site if they are informed that it is a gaming site.
Hmm, using the internet for child porn, terrorism, or playing cards is illegal. Which of these is not like the others? |
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Uncle_Buz
Four of a Kind
Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 260
Location: Tampa (formerly Ann Arbor)
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Did you read the rest of it??
It makes it illegal for a Financial Institution to transfer money if the money will be used for gambling.
No, it did not declare that internet poker was illegal to play, just to move money. |
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dumwaldo
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 1656
Location: look to the stars
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| drakes67 wrote: |
| Online poker has never been legal. It is banned in 48 states I believe. The bill is to scare and intimidate financial instituions. Any kind of gambling online is illegal and has been for a long time (Wiring Act), but there has been no one there to really enforce it. We will see if they do so now. Its up to the netellers and epassportes to take the risk now, the ball is in their court. |
Actually you have that 180 degrees backwars. Online poker has ALWAYS been legal and that has been affirmed through court actions. There are no federal laws that prohibit online poker and only 7 states have any type of prohibitions or limitations imposed through state laws.
The wire Act does not extend to online poker. In 2001 the United States District Court of Appeals ruled that the Wire Act does not extend to online casinos and only covers sports betting. The ruling was explicitly clear on this point and has remained unchallanged for the last 5 years. The only way the ruling could be challenged would be at the Supreme Court level since it has already been addressed by the second highest court in America.
You are also mistaken regarding the current state of enforcement of the Wire Act of 1961. Just ask David Carruthers. He is the CEO of betonsports.com and he was recently arrested in texas while trying to make a connecting flight to costa rica. Can you guess what he was arrested for? He was arrested for violating the Wire Act because his UK based business accepted bets from american customers in violation of the Wire Act.
If you are still unconvinced then try asking Peter Dicks. He was arrested in similar fashion for operating Sportingbet.com. Another UK based business that accepted sports bets from americans.
Make no mistake, the Wire Act is absolutely enforced in America. However, despite obvious and public enforcement no online poker site operator has met with any similar type of legal actions or even threats. The Goverment is clearly willing to persue sports betting site operators but they have a complete unwillingness to persue online poker site operators. The actions are speaking much louder than the words here.
Basically there is no legal definition anywhere that would indicate that online poker sites are to be considered gambling sites. For this reason there is no reason to prohibit financial transactions with them and services like neteller will not be taking any risk if they continue to act as a medium for online poker players since poker sites are not gambling sites as defined by the law.
This whole situation is like a giant deja vu for me. See I am one of those horrible internet pirates that the media industry hates so much. I have been doing it since before peer to peer software came around with the ensuing legal onslaught of lawsuits. When P2P users started getting sued EVERY newspaper and EVERY major news outlet spread the news of "illegal downloaders" being sued. This scared the hell out of the public and made them believe they were engaging in criminal activity.
The problem is there is nothing illegal about downloading. Downloading is actually a protected act under the guidelines of american copyright laws. What is illegal is the uploading of copyrighted material. Apparently this fact is not sensationalistic to grab attention so the media and the large copyright conglomerates like the record companies profess the illegality of downloading while never once suing someone for downloading.
This is a tactic known as FUD. FUD stands for fear uncertainty and doubt. FUD works to control the masses far better than honesty. It does not matter that there is no law against it if we can just convince the public that there is. Bill Frist can stand on a pulpit declaring online poker to be illegal all he wants but it wont make it reality and if you ask him to support this with some type of legal definition or precedent he will be at a loss.
peace out,
dumwaldo |
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bigguz2000
Two Pair
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 68
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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thank god someone on here knows what they're talking about. I typed a similar article on here last week, and everyone started saying I had no clue.
Thankfully there are some folks out there that still understand all the dumbass laws we have to live by.
Online poker = gonna be fine
Neteller = gonna be fine
woot woot |
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ipod99
High Card
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:21 pm Post subject: US players |
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| Ok , I know using Neteller ,etc. is fine but is this site going to be affected by less traffic by US players? In short...do I want te keep depositing money here if this site is going to fold? |
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griffinlord
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 2459
Location: The Great Plains of South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:09 am Post subject: Re: US players |
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| ipod99 wrote: |
| Ok , I know using Neteller ,etc. is fine but is this site going to be affected by less traffic by US players? In short...do I want te keep depositing money here if this site is going to fold? |
FT wasn't a high traffic site to begin with. Many of the U.S. based folks who play here are sufficiently hard core that they will continue playing here until they cannot.
The more casual players who may not continue are slowly being replace by folks coming in from PP and other sites that no longer serve U.S. customers.
If anything, once the dust settles, FT should be better off than it was preban. |
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krazybangs
Message Board Junkie
Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 1373
Location: Beyond Tilt
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| 17,000 + players at 4 PM eastern... I'd say its getting some traffic. |
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wleeo
High Card
Joined: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:09 am Post subject: New to Full Tilt |
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Party Poker closed its site to USA players on 10/13/06 - when the president did sign the bill.
Joined Full Tilt tonight - the site took my Neteller deposit - played and won my first sit'n'go game.
Will be interesting to see if this site stays open. |
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ironcityg
High Card
Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:18 am Post subject: online poker funding ban |
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What I want to know is how many of you will protest this action by our government? I know J. Dennis Hastert (R) Ill and another cowardly Congressman pushed this amendment to the Safe Harbor Act at the last minute so there was no vote by Congress and no discussion by either our representatives nor ourselves.
Our government should not be able to tell us what we do in the privacy of our own homes. And not with my post-tax salary. I am a Republican and I am furious that Hastert pulled a fast one and that Bush signed the law with this sneaky provision in it. I also sent a small donation to Hastert's opponent and actually received a personal reply to my email, which surprised the hell out of me.
I have joined the pokerplayersalliance. I also wrote the RNC, Hastert and GW. I will contact my Congressman and US Senators and ask them to overturn this law.
Last minute sneakiness should not be tolerated by the people.
IronCityG
Concord, Ca
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