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americanairline · Flush Joined: 03 Oct 2006 Posts: 135

I'm gonna post a few HH's and I want some feedback.. I'm doing terrible in limit, and I still don't know why.. probably because im stupid..

FullTiltPoker Game #1096932411: Table Reno - $0.25/$0.50 - Limit Hold'em - 10:30:51 ET - 2006/10/13
Seat 1: CInferno ($64.55)
Seat 2: Verdimaal ($22.65)
Seat 3: QxQ_2 ($8.70)
Seat 4: Canlis ($14.10)
Seat 5: Res Ipsa Loq ($2.70)
Seat 6: jackleg001 ($16.05)
Seat 7: Keywells ($17.70)
Seat 8: AmericanAirline ($13.90)
Seat 9: Custom Style ($57.90)
AmericanAirline posts the small blind of $0.10
Custom Style posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to AmericanAirline [Tc Ts]
Verdimaal folds
QxQ_2 folds
Canlis raises to $0.50
Res Ipsa Loq folds
jackleg001 folds
Keywells folds
AmericanAirline raises to $0.75
Custom Style calls $0.50
Canlis calls $0.25
*** FLOP *** [4s 6s 3d]
AmericanAirline bets $0.25
Custom Style raises to $0.50
Canlis folds
AmericanAirline raises to $0.75
Canlis is sitting out
Custom Style has 15 seconds left to act
Custom Style calls $0.25
*** TURN *** [4s 6s 3d] [5h]
AmericanAirline bets $0.50
Custom Style raises to $1
AmericanAirline calls $0.50
*** RIVER *** [4s 6s 3d 5h] [Qs]
AmericanAirline bets $0.50
Custom Style calls $0.50
*** SHOW DOWN ***
AmericanAirline shows [Tc Ts] (a pair of Tens)
Custom Style shows [7h 7s] (a straight, Seven high)
Custom Style wins the pot ($6.45) with a straight, Seven high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $6.75 | Rake $0.30
Board: [4s 6s 3d 5h Qs]
Seat 1: CInferno is sitting out
Seat 2: Verdimaal didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: QxQ_2 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Canlis folded on the Flop
Seat 5: Res Ipsa Loq didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: jackleg001 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: Keywells (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: AmericanAirline (small blind) showed [Tc Ts] and lost with a pair of Tens
Seat 9: Custom Style (big blind) showed [7h 7s] and won ($6.45) with a straight, Seven high

FullTiltPoker Game #1096902358: Table Reno - $0.25/$0.50 - Limit Hold'em - 10:11:16 ET - 2006/10/13
Seat 1: ROBINHOOD332 ($2)
Seat 2: Verdimaal ($21)
Seat 3: LeighasWin ($9.75)
Seat 4: Canlis ($15.90)
Seat 5: Res Ipsa Loq ($5)
Seat 6: jackleg001 ($17.60)
Seat 7: Keywells ($19.40)
Seat 8: AmericanAirline ($17.65)
Seat 9: Custom Style ($47.15)
Canlis has 5 seconds left to act
Canlis posts the small blind of $0.10
Res Ipsa Loq posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to AmericanAirline [Qd Qs]
jackleg001 folds
Keywells folds
AmericanAirline raises to $0.50
Custom Style folds
ROBINHOOD332 folds
Verdimaal folds
LeighasWin calls $0.50
Canlis folds
Res Ipsa Loq calls $0.25
*** FLOP *** [Ks Td 7d]
Res Ipsa Loq checks
AmericanAirline bets $0.25
LeighasWin calls $0.25
Res Ipsa Loq folds
*** TURN *** [Ks Td 7d] [6h]
AmericanAirline bets $0.50
LeighasWin raises to $1
AmericanAirline calls $0.50
*** RIVER *** [Ks Td 7d 6h] [5d]
AmericanAirline checks
LeighasWin bets $0.50
AmericanAirline calls $0.50
*** SHOW DOWN ***
LeighasWin shows [9s 8s] (a straight, Ten high)
AmericanAirline mucks
LeighasWin wins the pot ($4.85) with a straight, Ten high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $5.10 | Rake $0.25
Board: [Ks Td 7d 6h 5d]
Seat 1: ROBINHOOD332 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Verdimaal didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: LeighasWin (button) showed [9s 8s] and won ($4.85) with a straight, Ten high
Seat 4: Canlis (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: Res Ipsa Loq (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: jackleg001 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: Keywells didn't bet (folded)

FullTiltPoker Game #1096859116: Table Reno - $0.25/$0.50 - Limit Hold'em - 9:38:56 ET - 2006/10/13
Seat 1: ROBINHOOD332 ($2)
Seat 2: tull1 ($13.90)
Seat 3: chickiev ($19)
Seat 4: MathImpaired ($14.95)
Seat 5: Res Ipsa Loq ($4.10)
Seat 6: jackleg001 ($11.65)
Seat 7: introuble ($16.80)
Seat 8: AmericanAirline ($26.65)
Seat 9: Custom Style ($39.65)
AmericanAirline posts the small blind of $0.10
Custom Style posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to AmericanAirline [Ks Kc]
ROBINHOOD332 has 15 seconds left to act
ROBINHOOD332 calls $0.25
tull1 folds
chickiev calls $0.25
MathImpaired folds
Res Ipsa Loq folds
jackleg001 folds
introuble folds
AmericanAirline raises to $0.50
Custom Style calls $0.25
ROBINHOOD332 calls $0.25
chickiev calls $0.25
*** FLOP *** [8h 8d 8s]
AmericanAirline checks
Custom Style checks
ROBINHOOD332 checks
chickiev bets $0.25
AmericanAirline calls $0.25
Custom Style calls $0.25
ROBINHOOD332 folds
*** TURN *** [8h 8d 8s] [3d]
AmericanAirline bets $0.50
Custom Style folds
chickiev calls $0.50
*** RIVER *** [8h 8d 8s 3d] [Ac]
AmericanAirline checks
chickiev bets $0.50
AmericanAirline calls $0.50
*** SHOW DOWN ***
chickiev shows [Ah Js] (a full house, Eights full of Aces)
AmericanAirline shows [Ks Kc] (a full house, Eights full of Kings)
chickiev wins the pot ($4.55) with a full house, Eights full of Aces
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $4.75 | Rake $0.20
Board: [8h 8d 8s 3d Ac]
Seat 1: ROBINHOOD332 folded on the Flop
Seat 2: tull1 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: chickiev showed [Ah Js] and won ($4.55) with a full house, Eights full of Aces
Seat 4: MathImpaired didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Res Ipsa Loq didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: jackleg001 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: introuble (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: AmericanAirline (small blind) showed [Ks Kc] and lost with a full house, Eights full of Kings
Seat 9: Custom Style (big blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 8: AmericanAirline mucked [Qd Qs] - a pair of Queens
Seat 9: Custom Style didn't bet (folded)

Well this is what I've been facing all morning.. please help me out here, I'm really trying to make poker a main source of income, and I don't want to go bust on things like this. Thanks in advance!

-AA

Big Slick x13x · Forum Icon Joined: 18 Jun 2006 Posts: 4317 Location: ROK

First hand you should have check / called the river instead of leading out, you're lucky you didn't get raised.

Second hand nothing wrong with that play.

Third hand you have lead out at the flop. If you're going to check that flop, you need to check / raise it. The only hand that beats you based on the preflop action is the case 8, which is very unlikely. So you have the best of it, you need to be pumping the pot. The only thing that can hurt is if someone catches a 3 outer. You just got unlucky.

Spigwish · Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:00 am Post subject:

In Limit games, you will find it extremely difficult to bet people off their hands.

Don't overvalue overpairs or top pair. In hand #1, you were clearly facing a straight or a flush. Why did you continue to play your hand.

If you don't hit two pair, or a good draw to the high end of a straight, or a good flush draw they discard your hand. You must learn when to let go.

In hand #2, you were facing an overcard, a straight and a flush possibility. Same comments.

Hand #3, kinda tough. You did flop a full house, but then you checked it, and only called the bet made, instead of raising it. You showed no strength, and gave your opponent every reason in the world to continue with his lone ace. So you got sucked out on the river.

So, my advice is, learn to recognize when you are beat. Sometimes love means having to say goodbye. Be more aggresive when you are ahead. Use raises to find out where you are in the hand. Don't be afraid to reraise. The information gained will be invaluable.

griffinlord · Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:06 am Post subject:

Hand 1: Dude overplayed middle pair and got lucky. You slowed down on the turn, as you should. If the dude is generally passive the turn raise is a clear fold. If dude is generally aggressive then a call down is fine as he could be bluffing the four straight.

Hand 2: similar. Guy played his straight draw and caught it. Same thing, if this is a habitual bluffer call down, if normally passive fold to the turn raise.

Hand 3: You bet the best hand and got drawn out on the river. Sucks, but it happens.

In general one pair is just that, one pair. Once the board is coordinated you need to start thinking about folding to strength...especially strength from loose passive players. If you had folded the turn on the first two hands you'd have saved 3bb. That's a big hit in a game where win rates of 3bb-6bb/100 hands are considered pretty good.

I had a similar experience last night. Pocket Qs 3 times, out drawn all three times. Flopped a lucky full house and dude hit runner-runner for a better full house. Had another full house beat by a better full house. Flopped two sets that lost to bigger sets (one rivered).

The downside to limit is that your opponents will often have odds to keep drawing and will draw out on you periodically.

The downside to random events is that sometimes they run in packs. I fully expect to have second set once-in-a-while or the worse full house, no biggie. But those things seem to come in streaks a lot of the time. And when you get a set over set or two full houses the pots get big and your stack can take a major hit.

Otto410

Comments are interspersed with the action:

Otto410

Otto410

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8151 Location: Sweden

AA: Unless you're up against a habitual bluffer, I think you need to fold to a raise on the turn in both hands where your opponents hit their straights. In both hands, the turn filled a pretty obvious draw and your opponent told you that he had a hand. If you do think they're bluffing enough to stay in the hand though, betting the river makes absolutely no sense. Your opponent likes to bluff, so let him do just that. Betting the river with tens when there's a 4-straight and 3-flush out there practically assures you that you'll only get called by a hand that beats you. When it comes to the 8-8-8 flop, I'm just echoing what everyone else has said. You hit a great flop unless someone has an 8, and you have the lead, so just bet out and hope to get a ton of callers that don't believe you.

Otto: Some comments on your comments. First of all, I agree about Canlis, that was definitely funny. I don't agree with you about an open ender being a disguised draw though. 6's, 8's, 9's and aces are all major scare cards in addition to diamonds in my opinion. As for AA not representing a flush draw in the hand where the Qs hit on the river, any As-xs that is worth 3-betting pre-flop is probably worth a 3-bet with that low flop as well, even if the board is pretty coordinated. Once the turn blanks and he's raised though, it's time to call just like AA did.

Otto410 · Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:41 pm Post subject:

HuJwang · Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:22 am Post subject:

those ones are not nearly as stupid as this hand... the first guy flopped 2 pair, only to be sucked out by me with a straight, only to be sucked out by a complete retard with a boat.

Full Tilt Poker Game #1097494782: Table Hillcrest (speed) - $0.25/$0.50 - Limit Hold'em - 14:44:55 ET - 2006/10/13
Seat 1: midnightholdem ($10.25)
Seat 2: PokerJunkies_us ($20.70)
Seat 3: cmfiste ($15.45), is sitting out
Seat 4: ChaseStar989 ($32.80)
Seat 5: jcarr12 ($15.90)
Seat 6: josh josh josh ($10.25)
Seat 7: HuJwang ($12.55)
Seat 8: GOOBERx ($6.65)
Seat 9: ksbdog ($10.35)
midnightholdem posts the small blind of $0.10
PokerJunkies_us posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HuJwang [9s 8d]
ChaseStar989 calls $0.25
jcarr12 folds
josh josh josh folds
HuJwang calls $0.25
jcarr12 is sitting out
GOOBERx calls $0.25
ksbdog calls $0.25
midnightholdem folds
jcarr12 stands up
PokerJunkies_us checks
*** FLOP *** [4c Tc Js]
PokerJunkies_us bets $0.25
ChaseStar989 folds
HuJwang calls $0.25
GOOBERx folds
ksbdog calls $0.25
*** TURN *** [4c Tc Js] [7s]
PokerJunkies_us bets $0.50
HuJwang raises to $1
ksbdog raises to $1.50
Lew123 adds $5
PokerJunkies_us calls $1
HuJwang raises to $2
ksbdog calls $0.50
PokerJunkies_us calls $0.50
*** RIVER *** [4c Tc Js 7s] [4s]
PokerJunkies_us checks
HuJwang bets $0.50
ksbdog raises to $1
PokerJunkies_us calls $1
HuJwang calls $0.50
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ksbdog shows [7h 4h] (a full house, Fours full of Sevens)
PokerJunkies_us mucks
HuJwang mucks
ksbdog wins the pot ($10.60) with a full house, Fours full of Sevens
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $11.10 | Rake $0.50
Board: [4c Tc Js 7s 4s]
Seat 1: midnightholdem (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: PokerJunkies_us (big blind) mucked [Th Jc] - two pair, Jacks and Tens
Seat 3: cmfiste is sitting out
Seat 4: ChaseStar989 folded on the Flop
Seat 5: jcarr12 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: josh josh josh didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: HuJwang mucked [9s 8d] - a straight, Jack high
Seat 8: GOOBERx folded on the Flop
Seat 9: ksbdog (button) showed [7h 4h] and won ($10.60) with a full house, Fours full of Sevens

by the way... if you're going to tell me i shouldn't be playing 98o, well ksbdog had been playing (i would guess) 3/4 of his hands, including anything that was suited (even things like 93s). he also overcalled re-raises with crap like bottom pair so i knew that a hand such as a straight would have much bigger than normal implied odds.

americanairline · Flush Joined: 03 Oct 2006 Posts: 135

Thank you all so much for your input, and with it today I have made almost all my money back that I lost yesterday! I think I finally get it lol.. hard switching from NL to Limit!

-AA

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8151 Location: Sweden

UFO1947 · Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:07 am Post subject:

some advice I would like to input, i would get the book Supersystem 2, Jen Harman has a great chapter on limit hold'em.

Riddim · Moderator Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 8151 Location: Sweden

I agree UFO, but I think that Small Stakes Hold 'em should come first.

Otto410 · Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:27 am Post subject:

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