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deadmoney314 · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:18 pm Post subject: Don't tap on the aquarium

Well I did it today, and i'm not proud. This game was Laggy all around: UTG raised (6max), I 3 bet MP w/AKs, SB cold calls, UTG calls. Flop comes JT8 rainbow SB donks, UTG calls, I raise, SB 3bets, UTG calls, I "uh-oh" in my head but its been so laggy I cap with the additional equity that i'm certain one of my opponents should not be there.
Turn brings a brick (deuce or trey) but it gives me additional nut flush draw. SB donks again, UTG calls, I cry/pray with my call. OK it wasn't that emotional but I knew I had to improve river discounting my overcard draw heavily but goin nowhere with so many nut draws.
River brings non-flush Q for the nut, SB donks, UTG hesistates/calls, I raise, call call. After I check HH I spout, "don't call 3 cold with kTo" which was slightly inaccurate and intended for the SB. UTG immediately says, trip Qs on riv (which I knew from HH), and I reply "no, not u, u were fine, I was talking to XXXXXXXXXX".

Deep breath...
Ok, nice and calm, ocean breeze coming in, MMMMmmm is that Hazelnut columbian coffee I smell? AHhh, the best part of waking up...

Anyone who pays attn to me knows I don't berate players, in fact I can't remember the last time I decided to "correct" someone's play in real time. And I'm not sure what brought it on today, maybe its playin micros so much lately and seeing not just awful play which can happen higher up but HORRendous play. This coupled with the fact of the stress of legislation poking its ugly nose into my life is all I could come up with. We all make mistakes sometimes I guess.

So I thought this would be a good time to remind ourselves why not to tap on the glass. You never want to alert players to the concept that strategy should be applied to their decisions. This is a Caro point that has been reiterated many times but can never be repeated enough. Secondly, you immediately identify yourself as someone who is thinking about decisions instead of someone who is shooting from the hip and hoping to get lucky. While it may not make the difference from winning to losing, I guarantee it will make a difference between larger profits and smaller profits.
Some types of action are difficult to find, specifically the type that only comes from the truly noobish and the extraordinarily careless--if you wake these players up you risk them not capping sucker end gutshot draws into your TPGKs in addition to burning them so badly with adding insult to injury that they get turned off from your particular game and decide to try a different form of poker be it NL, tourney, etc. You must remember these are your customers and like a Casino, you don't see blackjack dealers or floormen berating someone who is running hot and beating the house out of a small amount of money (in comparison to the casino's bankroll). In fact, they try to get those winners comped, free room, and sitting there as long as possible--a true winning decision.
So, the next time you feel like snapping as I did (granted my idea of a meltdown is nowhere near what I see from others) instead suck it up. Tell them "nh", or let them know they are an excellent player, and say "I've been losing at poker before it was cool", anything to let them know the game is supposed to be fun and carefree as you sit there like a thief in the night making your best possible decisions given incomplete information disregarding the results. Nearly everyone thinks they are Ivey's gift to poker when they sit down on a whim, don't let them think any differently and get your reassurance of being a solid player from your HHs and analyzing the accuracy your decisions.
I'd be interested to hear what others like to do with table talk if they use it at all and what they hope to accomplish along with what they've seen in result.

Big Slick x13x · Forum Icon Joined: 18 Jun 2006 Posts: 4122 Location: ROK

I usually just talk to people and have a good time. I've been compared to Negreanu at the table based on talk....and that I destroy the players at the casino I usually play at. They should just change the name of the poker room to Chris' ATM 80% of the days I'm there. I like to have fun at the table. I get a high that feels like being drunk without the stupidity mixed in when I'm playing poker. I'll sometimes laugh at a player when they call the flop with bottom pair then hit runner runner full house. I tell them to keep calling me down with bottom pair. I try to say it in the least possible sarcastic voice but it's still pretty thick. With the players that I'm talking to and just chatting with, the way the cards are played never really comes up unless it's a big pot. I've been known to buy drinks for the table or the people I'm talking to, and have had drinks bought for me on numerous occassions. If you can't have fun at the table then I don't think you should be there anyway.

clussman · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:35 pm Post subject:

For some reason I've been pretty quiet while I've learned to play ring games. My strength has traditionally (short tradition, I haven't been playing that long) been MTTs and SNGs. In MTTs, and more and more in ring games, I like to talk non-stop. I'm not looking for information per se. I'm just looking to make people feel comfortable and happy. Comfortable people play more loosely and they don't even mind losing so much. They're paying for my company -- which I always knew people would do eventually. Wink

I swear and **** like that guy, can't remember his name, who had videos of himself posted all over YouTube, but I keep that stuff offline and only do it when nobody is around. Online I try to be nice or, failing that, quiet. When I moved up in levels for the first time today and lost 2 buyins to SuperDonk in 10 minutes, I complimented his game. I told him I had no business in that last hand. Etc. I made some notes for the next time I played him and then I left the table.

I've "tapped the glass" before. The more I play the less often I crack and do something stupid like that. I really think it takes experience and a lot of practice for the vast majority of us to keep our cool for long stretches. I still need plenty more experience...

iainlap · Two Pair Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Posts: 51 Location: Worcester

I agree with not berating players - but it can be hard NOT to do - Ive found that I look at all the bricks in my new extension and block paved driveway and think about how each one is from poker earnings from those players when they HAVENT got lucky!

I then say "oh, nh - I didnt put you on that, good deception"

bigwheell · Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:03 am Post subject:

Good post and good replies.

I don't think there is nothing more to add...

Riddim · Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:16 am Post subject:

I'm usually pretty quiet when I play online these days, although I throw out an occasional "nh" when someone wins a pot with a big hand, especially if they played it really badly. When playing HU though, I've gotten the habit of saying hi to my opponents when I sit down. Sometimes the only response I get is a standard "hi gl", and a lot of people don't even respond at all. If possible though, I like to keep a conversation going during the game. Not only is this more likely to distract most of my opponents than me, since I'm probably more used to both how the game itself plays and to keep my head in the game while having a conversation. It also allows me to give a few subtle hints here and there that the reason I have a steadily increasing chiplead is luck. Since my style of play can seem a bit wild and most people don't like to view themselves as the worst player in the game, my opponents often just accept the "fact" that they're just unlucky and keep playing the same way, waiting for things to turn around.

With the exception of some forum horse games where I just don't care, I'm quite happy with how infrequently I tap the aquarium. If I do make a comment out of frustration, I tend to limit myself to a simple "wow". On a side note, I hope you realize that there are other sub-forums than this one deadmoney. Even if you did happen to tap the aquarium in a limit hold 'em game, the actual subject of the post seems perfect for the general poker section. Posting it here might keep people who actually have something to say out just because they don't play this game.

KGBlovesOreos · Moderator Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 5318 Location: VA

The only time I ever say anything nowadays is when I play our forum tournaments (just like with Riddim). By playing with you guys, I really do feel like I'm playing with friends for the sake of having fun, not for the sake of money. Yes, I do obviously go for 1st place everytime I sign up for MBJ's, but the point of our forum tournaments is to learn from eachother, so if I see a familiar face make a mistake I will help him/her out because I want to see them improve and do well on their own. I won't be so cold-hearted as to not even inform them of a mistake they made for the sake of winning the measly $60 first prize.

Now, when I play strangers, I never say anything... ever! If somebody gets lucky on my, I will say "nh" and nothing more. I want to encourage them to play that way, and doing anything otherwise would be foolish.

Every so often I run into a player or two who break this code and tap the aquarium. When I see that, I not only get angry at them for doing so, but I get angry when others start to join in on the attack of the "fish". However, when you do encounter these "aquarium tappers" (work with me here), you should immediately pick up a lot of information on their game:

1) They likely shoot straight from the hip and play ABC poker.

2) They are knowledgeable enough to hang in there, but they aren't knowledgeable enough to understand the next level of cricical thinking. How do I know this? Well, if they're tapping the aquarium, they obviously have no understanding of what harm they're doing to themselves, right?
So their game likely derives from popular books or broadcasts, so you can take advantage of that by thinking beyond basic book strategy.

3) If you show down a hand, it is likely that these players will note your play for that specific hand, so they will probably adapt to your style by making a few minor adjustments. Should you showdown a hand, make sure you change gears for the following few hands to adjust to their adjustments. Poker is a chess match, and you cannot get away with playing one style over and over.

4) Should anybody call you lucky or a fishcake, swallow your pride and agree with them. Don't deter them from believing they are god's gift to poker. And don't deter them from believing your sh*t consists of horseshoes and rabbit's feet.

griffinlord · Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:07 am Post subject:

I was just lecturing the other day on how fish are your friends and you should love them and hug them. All the while knowing how many times I've screamed at my monitor 'cause someone made an absolutely idiotic play and rivered me.

The good news: I only yell at the monitor...I never use the chat box to correct, scold, or belittle another player.

I'm not tilting seriously. The 23sec shout at the monitor is usually all I need to vent my frustration and calm back down.

I only get angry when I've been getting eaten by the fish over several hands.

I would like to develop my chatting skills. I'm not very good at the friendly banter that, I think, helps keep players in the game and helps keep them loose.

griffinlord · Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:26 am Post subject:

I've been looking for an excuse to share this story for a while and this seems like the correct thread.

It is 1987 at the Dunes poker room. I'm looking for a 1/2 or 2/4 HE game. The room manager says he'll have one starting soon, in the meantime did I want to play in the 3/6 O/8 game?

Now, keep in mind that in 1987 3/6 was a lot more money than it is now--way more than I should have been playing, but I'd had a lucky run on the craps table earlier and I had read about O/8 and wanted to try it.

First hand I get A2xx. I know just enough to know that A2 is as good as it gets if I'm not counterfitted. I play to the river, proudly turn over my A2 for the low half of the pot--and was told my hand was no good.

Seems I hadn't read, or remembered, the "8 or better" qualifyer for low. The board only had 2 cards 8 or lower Crying or Very sad

I immediately stood up commenting on my lack of knowledge and declaring that I had no business at this table. Two of the old guys at the table immediately started telling me that they weren't offended and that everyone makes mistakes. It was okay, I should sit down and keep playing. They were very nice to me.

That's how you treat a fish.

I think I played less than one orbit when a 1/2 HE game opened up and I took a seat. (I actually had a clue how to play HE.)

An hour later I got involved in a hand where I had an uncounterfitable nut on the turn. Someone bet, I raised, all but one folded. That poor guy was getting ready to fold when his wife started telling him to grow some balls and call me. He called both turn and river. I stayed out of the fight that errupted moments after I showed my hand. I guess I wasn't really sure if I should be thanking her or telling him to file for divorce. Confused

She continued to hound him as he lost more money, some of it to me, and I never, ever told her to leave the poor guy alone. I did feel really bad for him though.

UFO1947 · Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject:

the moral of that story is never bring your wife to a poker room

AllInDrawinDead · Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:18 pm Post subject:

What if you're married to Jennifer Harman? My guess is that this guy is not married to her. Someone's wife really shouldn't get involved in his hand. No one outside the hand should have any influence at all actually.

Now is it ok to tell someone that they're a donkey and an idiot and that they don't even understand what one hand's odds are against another hands? I'm just asking because that's what Mike Matusow does.

griffinlord · Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:25 pm Post subject:

bigwheell · Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:56 am Post subject:

Bump...

We had a wonderful 64/40/2 player sit down at my full ring .50/1 tonight...He only stayed for about 80 hands because 3 people at the tabel were giving him hell about his play...

They were calling him donk, fish, loser, everything they could think of to tell him how poor of a player he was and how good they were.

The guy bought in for 48.35, so you know it was his whole roll...He would have left it all on the table too if it weren't for the retards at the table making fun of him...I am happy to say tht I got two big pots off him before he left our table...

I would think that most people that post here in the forums have enough sense not to chase easy money off the table...

This is just a reminder Laughing

Tiera Starr · Message Board Junkie Joined: 01 Mar 2006 Posts: 1827

Most times I don't chat at all. I have the PC next to my bed and play lying down so typing takes some effort. Sometimes I feel guilty when not responding to another's nh or gg comment.

I will occasionally say gg when I feel someone has played well. And the very rare wow when I win a hand that I didn't expect to.

But for the most past I will be silent other than attempting a "ty" when someone directs a compliment towards me.

Sometimes I'll sit up and engage in friendly banter. I do find a friendly table atmosphere helps set the mood. However if people are speaking rudely, then I'll remain silent until they leave the table.

The one drawback of playing lying down, is that sometimes I fall asleep during the 5 minute break, (and find out I've bubbled when I wake up.)

griffinlord · Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:03 pm Post subject:

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