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pitka · High Card Joined: 07 Oct 2006 Posts: 14

In the ironman freeroll of October 7th, player gavinz1970 won a few chips early and then began stalling by using the full allotment of time to fold every hand. He began this tactic very early in the tournament when the blinds were still 30/60. He had about 2600 chips, which would be more than enough to make the money by using this tactic. This places many other players at a disadvantage as we get to play fewer hands before the blinds increase. It's also very annoying and IMO unethical. He was asked to stop but continued to stall every single hand. I have reported him to support as this sort of behaviour should not be allowed. What do you all think of this?

doubledownA · Banned Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 3323

technically he has as the ability to utilize his full run alotment of time, I dont really see a problem with his tactic...It may be a bit overboard, but not illegal by anymeans.

pitka · High Card Joined: 07 Oct 2006 Posts: 14

It's an angle. From the web: "The Official Dictionary of Poker": defines "angle" as: "A maneuver, usually on the border of legaility and illegality (but usually clearly unethical) to take unfair advantage...."

This behaviour is clearly unethical. Meanwhile he's playing normally on a NL table so we know it's not a connection problem.

pitka · High Card Joined: 07 Oct 2006 Posts: 14

Update: He barely made the money after stalling on every hand for well over an hour. Then he went all in and I called with a 63o and knocked him out.

SlySelea · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:52 pm Post subject:

Goldy Wilson all over again. During that turny a long time ago support actually came to the table and scolded him for his play, but he kept doing it anyway with no penalty that I was ever aware of. He finished second in this 100k guarantee, I think it was and if I remember correctly.

pitka · High Card Joined: 07 Oct 2006 Posts: 14

Nothing from support so far. This guy should be disqualified and his winnings in the tourny forfeited. Otherwise, full tilt is sending a message that you can abuse the rules and play unethically and they don't care. Rules can never be written in such a clear manner that there aren't holes for people to abuse. That's where common sense and judgment come into play. Any person who takes the maximum time to fold 100% of his hands for over an hour is clearly abusing the rules and putting everyone at his table at a disadvantage. We were only able to play half as many hands as everyone else in the tournament. I do hope this incident isn't brushed aside and ignored by those in charge. This was a $30,000 tournament after all.

junkbutton · Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:12 pm Post subject:

pitka · High Card Joined: 07 Oct 2006 Posts: 14

Leave then. I doubt you'll be missed if you support this sort of unethical bend the rules sort of play.

junkbutton · Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:27 pm Post subject:

Jobe Gilchrist · Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:02 pm Post subject:

Oh come on, try to think about this with just a little depth, instead of finding a nice platitude like "so people should play like YOU want them to play?" and humping it for a few paragraphs.

When the way that somebody wants to play is clearly unethical and detracts from everyone else's experience, maybe we should actually think about whether that sort of play should be allowed, and if not, take measures to prevent it. I know, it's a bit harder than just putting your hands over your ears and yelling "EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO PLAY POKER HOWEVER THEY WANT AS LONG AS THE SOFTWARE ALLOWS IT", but it's okay to actually solve a problem every once in a while, instead of just waving your hands until it doesn't look like a problem anymore.

There is no perfect analogy to this, and invoking an analogy among random people who may or may not know how to think is a recipe for disaster, since they'll just attack the analogy and think they're attacking the argument. Fck it, let's live on the edge a bit, woohooo, here goes: If I fill up the chat window with obscenities, the software is allowing me to do it, but a quick letter to support will revoke that privilege. I can play with a couple buddies and IM them my hands; nothing in the FTP software is saying "you can't play this way", but it's unethical, unethical enough to warrant making a rule about it.

If anybody stalled like that at a cash game, the table would clear out. In a home game, people would kick them out of the house. But oh no, this is a tournament, and we're all stuck here, so now the douchebag can wreack havoc? No, now we can figure out how to stop that from happening. See? Now we're solutions-oriented! You're making great progress.

Meet me in the conference room, let's brainstorm; I'm interested in what you have to say (just kidding), suggestions:

1. Move to a time bank system where, if you go beyond 15 seconds, you start pulling from the bank. Once the bank is gone, it's gone, or it can be renewed each hour, whatever. This at least makes stalling much less effective.

2. Figure out a way to identify somebody who is doing this and change their abilities, much like with the chat ban. If someone is timing out or hitting that threshhold you set x times in y period of time, then they're "on notice", and their timing system is changed temporarily. Perhaps you only get 15 seconds to act, something like that. That's a pretty tough penalty, to be sure, and it's going to be imposed on schmucks who play with a horrible internet connection as well as unethical players, but that's the price you pay. Both types are annoying as hell for everyone else to play with.

If anything, this is more important than banning chat, since I can either turn off chat or mute any player I want. And it all feeds the bottom line: a better experience means more players playing more often. $$$!

junkbutton · Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject:

I don't disagree with anything that you said, Jobe (unless you took some shots at me in all those big words somewhere... Than I'd have to). My point above anything else, is if this guy didn't break any rules, no money should be taken from his account.

Do you really think that it's feasable that someone should have to play the game with different rules (or abilities as you mentioned) than somone else?

The_OG_Rocco · Royal Flush Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 742 Location: Texas

Jobe Gilchrist · Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:48 pm Post subject:

Oh my gosh, I saw your name at the end and said to myself "here we go again..." Much respect for being able to say you agree even though you think I'm the antichrist Smile

Honest_Rob · Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:15 pm Post subject:

pitka · High Card Joined: 07 Oct 2006 Posts: 14

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