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PlayingTheBoard · Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:21 pm Post subject:

Certainly, there are other things to consider as well--relative stack sizes being a key factor to consider.

For instance, if there are five players left, as follows:

Player1 10,000
Player2 55,000
Player3 5,000 (button)
Player4 70,000 (SB)
Player5 15,000 (BB)

Blinds 1000/2000, 300 ante

Player3, the short stack with only 2.5BB, moves in from the button. Player4 calls in the SB with KcJc. The BB calls also.

Flop: Js 7d 3s

If you're player4, do you bet or check here? Some might check it down, but I would much prefer betting out here. You have the best hand in all likelihood and are the big stack at the table, thus I would strongly advise betting out with top-pair/decent kicker than letting the BB get a free shot at the 15K+ pot with a hand like Ax or Qx (as he can run you down by hitting his ace or queen to make top pair), or 7x or 3x (as he can hit two pair or trips), or even JT (you both hit top pair--you have him outkicked at the moment, but he may pay you off with top pair, and you don't want to give him a free draw to hit his T kicker).

Since he was in the BB and had to call only 3K more in a 10K+ pot, he could have any number of hands, and you don't want to give him a free opportunity to hit a miracle card with a hand like 88, or T9, or 65, etc.

After calling the preflop raise, player5 has only 10K remaining, so if I'm in player4's shoes, I bet 10K and force player5 to a decision for the remainder of his chips.

Again, there is a time for the check-down, and a time to bet and protect what figures to be the best hand.

Zaneyone · Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:25 pm Post subject:

BOY, I agree with you on the check down as opposed to bluffing at a dry side pot with a marginal hand but I think you should have played this hand differently.

I think once soco called the additional 385, you should have moved all in rather than just call the 135 additional chips. You had a good hand heads up against a short stack, your stack wasn't that big and if soco folded and you lost, your still alive. If soco called and you won, you'd have a nice stack. Even if soco called and you only won the side pot you'd have more chips than what you started the hand with.

Since you were the original raiser, soco would have to think his QJo wasn't good and fold. If he called anyway, then you should be happy. I'll take AQ vs QJ every time.

I just think you could have built a nice stack and knocked a player out playing it this way. Nothing better then that.

Best of Luck!......except against me. Smile

CoolFin69 · Flush Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 126

PlayingTheBoard · Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:43 pm Post subject:

If you could only be called if you're behind, then I don't mind checking your hand. However, say you've got QQ and the flop comes 553. Why give your opponent two free shots at hitting an A or K--especially when you realize you will likely get paid off if he has a pocket pair between 5's and Q's? If he has TT, or 77, he's got an overpair to the board and could very well feel that he is in the lead. If he has a hand like TT, then if a J, Q, K, or A hits the board, he will be reticent to call a bet because of the overcard...not only that, but if a K or A hits the board, you will then be afraid to bet, fearing the overcard as well.

I would much rather bet out at this flop than meekly check along and be beaten on the end when a K hits the board and he ended up making top pair with a hand like KJ, when you gave him two free chances to hit his overcard. No, you wouldn't have gotten more money out of him by betting, but you did give yourself a better chance to win by betting, forcing him to fold, and eliminating his overcard. Betting out, I think, is especially imperative if two suited cards hit the board--you've got no one but yourself to blame if he fills his KT flush on the end because you never bet to protect your overpair.

Obviously, your position becomes more precarious as your overpair gets lower--QQ is a MUCH stronger holding than 88, for example. If you've got 88 and bet into a board of 553 rainbow, then there aren't a whole lot of hands that you can beat that will call you here--instead, most of the hands that will call you have got you beat.

But if you've got a) a hand that figures to be best at the moment, b) can be called by several hands worse than yours, and c) is vulnerable to draws, then make them pay to stay!

Jaconda78 · Message Board Junkie Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 4177

Exactly, PTB. You said exactly what I feel, only better!

CoolFin69 · Flush Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 126

PlayingTheBoard · Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:02 pm Post subject:

Zaneyone · Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:06 pm Post subject:

It can go both ways fin. Once I had AK, called a SS all in as did one other. Flop came AKx. We both checked, and turn was a J. I ended up losing to someone holding QT. Had I bet after the flop, I win and knock the SS out. Maybe with a set and no str8/flsh possible I might slow play hoping someone bets so I can raise.

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